I have the old school Barnes dry sump w/custom pan,and wanting to some pictures of how you guys did your plumbing,and where you put the oil tank,and breather can.
This is going to be on a toy,so I need the interior in place.I was going to run this setup,and use my accusump as a backup precaution,but that requires even more room.Also.....considering not using the dry sump set up,and just use my Moroso road race pan w/the accusump.
Any thoughts here would be appreciated,and pictures would be even better.
I am aware that I don't need the dry sump for a spirited street toy,but it IS a superior system,and the cool factor is there.everything about this car is from yesteryear...as is this old Barnes setup.
Thanks fellas,and Merry Christmas to all.....

 

(Sorry, I have to do it.) Not my Vette but I did run an old Firebird dry sump -- at least until it threw a rod right out the side of the block!

Back to your question - That should look great, excellent wow factor. Sorry I couldn't be any help & Merry Christmas to you!

 

Firebirds are cool!Alot of them around here.I redid a 73 BB/4-speed TA here last year,and people came out of the woodwork cause it was rumored it was a SD car,so met alot of Pontiac guys.
I want to run the setup,and started getting braided lines for the install,but worried about where to mount the oil tank.I thought about a custom mounted between the gas tank,and rear tub?????I see road race cars w/the oil tank mounted in the back.THAT braided l;ine is going to kick my azz on the $$$$$$$.

 

If you get ride of the AC there is a signifigant amount of room in the passenger side fenger behind the wheel well. You might be able to get a 2 gallon or so tank there. Might have to have ti custom made.

 

On race cars its fine but for the street unless designed into the car as the new Vettes have you will need a huge oil tank with no place to put it. Besides its a scavenging system and there is always oil in the pan. So its not actually 'dry' I also dont think that GM is using a Barnes style of oil system. But whatever it is was designed around the car. Just because it looks neat, how is that, except for the tank placed somewheres no one would even know it was there. However its only my opinion and I do use a Barnes dry sump on a Nitro engine and it takes nearly a case of oil every run...Check into GM`s system as it may be a simpler set up.

 

I agree there that it takes a large oil tank.It came off a SCCA champion 73 SB convertible.This is the OLD style Barnes.And it is cool,but also,superior to any factory GM set up that came out on our cars.I may just run the Moroso pan,and the accusump as it would be ALOT easier to find room,but I still want to run the Barnes setup cause it is here,and I have a couple rebuilt pumps,and enough parts for another rebuild.
This is the old style that mounts in the stock oil pump location...



This is just a toy,but would like some track time.It is a aluminum headed stroked 302 w/6x2,and I have a bunch of J56 stuff for the car.

 

I thought about that,but my exhaust runs thru the fender,and there is custom panels to clean up the engine compartment.
It's not a AC car,and thought about loosing the heater boxes,but wife already doesn't like the car,cause it's not very street friendly,and you have to be in the gas pretty hard to make the car run w/the 6 dueces....

see how the exhaust is?It is custom Hookers that are cut,turn back up,then into a collector section w/4 custom tubes that come up thru the fender hole,then down into Hooker side tubes.There's not alot of room in the inner fenders,but thought about a custom shaped tank to mount in there,but then there is the issue of being able to get oil into the tank,and making a bracket to hold the tank full of oil w/out damaging the inner fender?????

 

Did you make the headers ? I don't know anything about dry sumps but if your car is just a local driven toy is there any room left in the storage compartment with the top down or do you have a hard top where you don't have to use the rag top ?

 

I have both tops.That was another thought...to run a long square tank at the back of the inner rear tub,or even in the jack hole.
I didn't make the exhaust.It was done in like 70/71 from a custom exhaust place in Cali.This car hasn't been touched since the early 70s.I did remove the **** carpet,and go black factory style,and removed the original radio,and upgraded alittle.The exhaust was one reason why I bought the car.There's not another vette w/them,and the induction is very rare.It's a cool old car,and low mileage w/perfect steel every where.

 

Thats what I was thinking build a custom tank, if your willing to do away with storage for the rag top you would have all kinds of room. Still have room to throw some jackets or whatever in the storage compartment.

You do have a very different intake setup, its not like someone looks under the hood of your car goes ho-hum another
small block with a single four barrel. Are you sure running this dry sump is worth it.

That DZ block should be worth some money.

 

If I built a long oil tank w/a dump at the bottom,then there should be room for the top to fold dowm too.
I am just on here for feelers w/what to do,and what you guys have done/think.I may seriously go w/the Moroso pan,and the accusump.
I thought about saling the DZ.The only problem is....the block was decked,so no call tag on the front,but pulled the pan,and is 4-bolt,and the right number for the late 68 for 69 DZ cars.I have other 4-bolt 010 blocks here,and thought about using one of them,and just putting the DZ in the corner,or up for sale.The motor is brand new,and I am going w/aluminum heads,and different cam,and oiling system,but I hate to fork the coin out to redo another engine here when this one only has a couple thousand miles on it.What I want is a steel rodded/steel crank 383 w/the Brodix heads,and the induction I have.I just don't have the money like that.Business is slow,and parts sales are almost a thing of the past,so need to keep some money in savings,and Christmas is here too.....
I don't know.It's winter here now,and I have other vettes to drive on decent days,so there is no rush on this car.I just want it back on the road by spring.I am redoing the body.The paint is almost 40 years old.

 

If you decide on the RR pan and accusump, make certain all those gates swing freely when the pan is all bolted up. I've had one on my Moroso BB/RR pan that only hung when installed.

FYI, I have a pressure balanced, submerged, bottom feed Moroso pump (no pickup to come loose) and a crank scrapper, and I'm planning on plumbing in my accusump with a solenoid to facilitate pre-lube before start up. Additionally, I'm going to add a modern one-way windage screen to aid drain back. Hopefully, all of this will finally solve my chronic loss of prime in long sweepers, as I just can't see trying to fit a dry-sump to my street shark.

Just sharing in case it helps your thought process...

 

The dry sump circle track cars I've worked with require oil tank HEATERS in order to get the temp up prior to start. Dry sumps take MUCH longer to heat all that oil & lines & tank than does a wet sump. Instead, suggest your wet road race pan.

 

I appreciate,and respect all the views here.Thank you....

 

Did the Pontiac guys mock you for calling a Pontiac engine a big block? They get sensitive about that.

 

No,but I wear shirts that say "Doesn't play well w/others",and have 5 Rottweilers,and pits in the shop,so "guest" tread lightly here at Vettes by Designs.

Here's my baby...Lenny Von Newahaus.His grandpa was the 2001 world champion.Excellent German lines.....

 

We have a couple of dry sump road historic race cars at the shop. The vettes I've seen had to cut and box the drivers frame to clear the pump. Then they mount the alternator and power steering off on the right hand side. The two gallon tank is mounted in the rear with all 12AN lines.

Your have to fire up the motor and run them at 2500 rpm until the sump tank mounted temp sensor gets to 180 F before your drive them. They put in a rear fire proof bulk head to keep the heat out of the interior. although I was looking at one GT1 car and the tank was on the passenger side floor and 180 degree headers were exiting out the passenger side door.

As for me I just use the 4 quart Accusump with the electric solenoid that dumps when the key is turned on. So I see my pressure gauge start to come up before I hit the starter

 

I bought a Weiss 5 stage off Ebay from a Nextel Cup shop and had Weiss remove 2 scavenge stages so it will fit my 72 but, project has been on back burner due to many fitment issues with plumbing. I went with a Canton pan with top side pick-ups because
I did'nt want the scavenge plumbing down near bottom of pan but, the top fittings have made it a SOB to plumb and stay clear of header tubes. I am thinking I will run hard lines to LH side of pan to solve issues of plumbing lines getting within 1.5" of header tubes (don't want to cook rubber AN lines.) I have a 6 qt tank but, after reading about C6 Z06 oil starvation, I know I need a 10-12qt tank to make system workable. I will get back on this as soon as my wife is quieted up with our 70 LT-1 roadster project (just need to test vacuum systems before installing dash on that one.) Barnes 2 stage pumps are OK but, I would go with Weaver 3 stage for more reliability. My motor is at machine shop waiting for me to finish scavenge system but, I want to finalize car plumbing to run it on the dyno to check system performance in "as installed" condition. Maybe I can shoot photos of my set-up sometime and post them if I get ahead on 70 project. First priorities first, my wife wants the 70 LT-1 done!

 

Dumb question - you turn the key and four quarts of oil is pressure fed into the engine. What happens when the engine starts? No need for any concern there is now 4 more quarts of oil in the pan? Is it a very temporary situation, then it gets fed back to the Accusump? Or is it a situation that not all 4 quarts goes into the engine due to the pressure building? TIA

 

I talked to Barnes,and all this isn't as complicated as it seems.I have a dry sump system that isn't technically a dry sump.My pump mounts in the same location as the stock oil pump,then the plugs come in from the outside of the oil pan w/o-ring gaskets,and screws thru the hole into the actual pump.These are my inlet,and outlet.Aitcraft,or hard lines go from there to a oil tank that has one fitting on the bottom that goes to the inlet side of my pump,then a fitting near the top that the oil comes into,and he recommended a door,or screen so the oil doesn't foam,then at the top of the oil tank....a vent line that can go to any engine access plug,or the valve covers,or drill a hole in the intake,and put in a fitting or the vent.
He said that I can build my own tank,and he built all his when he was racing,and they don't have to be fancy,but functional.They don't have to be close to the pan,cause they scavenge,but it is best/better if you can get the bottom fitting that goes to the inlet side of the of the pan/pump ABOVE this so there is also,gravity feed.
As for the heating the oil......he said they pre-heated all their race cars,cause they are race cars,but for a street car like mine...IF it wasn't really cold out then it wasn't needed,but there are several places like O'Reiley's,and GM that sale plug in heaters that you can weld in,and plug in.
I do have to make some kind of closed provision to be able to add oil.
I asked what the benefits of this was compared to a stock setup,and he said that these became very popular in sprint cars many years ago cause AS LONG as the oil tank was designed good,then the engine never lost oil pressure,or oil was away from the pick up.
He said that this would b e alot better than the factory setup,and the older style that I have would be pretty easy to setup,and maintain,and would work fine for what I am trying to accomplish.
I think that I am still going to throw the setup on ebay,and see whee it goes,and if it sales,then will use the Moroso RR pan,and the accusump.I don't know.
I thank you all for all the input,and if any of you are able....please continue to share your information,and photos.I have built engines,etc.,but I am mostly a body guy,so this stuff is new to me,and very interesting.