New Engine Build 383 Help
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Lol...thx Scott! Sorry, I want to know everyone's opinion. It's good to know this new setup sounds a lot better. I don't want to be a bother. However, I have read so many things my brain needs a rest. That sounds pretty good...I think I'm am getting close to my 'final answer'.
Last edited by ShakeyrayStingray; Feb 14, 2009 at 02:34 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,339
Likes: 416
From: Seattle Area WA
Not sure its in your budget and a bit overkill but a Callies crank will put those SCAT cranks to shame, they run $655, forged in Japan, not China and Callies quality is top notch. These guys offer packages as well.
http://www.flatlanderracing.com/compstar-cranks.html
Also be aware that some piston mfgrs quote comp ratio at zero deck height and not the production .025" below deck so verify with the piston mfgr. Again, the IK200s use a fel pro 1206 intake gasket which is huge and you could have some mismatch or fitment issues with the IK200s. Call and confirm your selection with Brodix.
http://www.flatlanderracing.com/compstar-cranks.html
Also be aware that some piston mfgrs quote comp ratio at zero deck height and not the production .025" below deck so verify with the piston mfgr. Again, the IK200s use a fel pro 1206 intake gasket which is huge and you could have some mismatch or fitment issues with the IK200s. Call and confirm your selection with Brodix.
Last edited by Scott Marzahl; Feb 14, 2009 at 04:23 PM.
NCM Grand Opening Veteran
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: South of giving a damn
St. Jude Donor '11, '17
I still think it's overkill going forged, except for the pistons - they should be, however it is your decision & you should feel comfortable with the finished engine. If you go non-roller then you really have to pay attention to the oil & zinc. I do like the idea of getting a roller truck block, but your Dad's block will work if you don't want rollers. I agree that solids are not as big a pain as popular thought has them being.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 3
From: NORTHEAST
As an engine builder who does this every day I am not a fan of cast cranks and if I am going to spend some ones money on a nicely machined block and good rods and pistons, Heads ETC. a 180 dollar crank is not my first choice.
When balancing a crank a drilling a cast crank its like cutting through butter compared to a nice 4340 crank!!
He is a quote I did on another site
When balancing a crank a drilling a cast crank its like cutting through butter compared to a nice 4340 crank!!
He is a quote I did on another site
Originally Posted by CNC BLOCKS
Probably about 8 years ago we tried to run the Scat cast cranks in our 2 barrel cirlce track engines appox. 370 horse and in one season we saw 5 broken ones and a other shop near me saw the same results with broken cranks.
Went to the PRI Show and told Tom Leib the problem I had with there cranks and he saids I was the first to ever tell hime that, My friend that broke some near me went at told Tom the same thing I did and he told him this was the first he had heard of it and Bob pointed to me off to the side and and Mr. Leib did not know what to say.
Since then both of us have gone to forged cranks and so far no broken ones in the last 8 years.
The Callies Compstar for around 650 dollars is a dam good choice.
Here is a link from another site
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/engi...ted-crank.html
Went to the PRI Show and told Tom Leib the problem I had with there cranks and he saids I was the first to ever tell hime that, My friend that broke some near me went at told Tom the same thing I did and he told him this was the first he had heard of it and Bob pointed to me off to the side and and Mr. Leib did not know what to say.
Since then both of us have gone to forged cranks and so far no broken ones in the last 8 years.
The Callies Compstar for around 650 dollars is a dam good choice.
Here is a link from another site
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/engi...ted-crank.html
Instructor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 183
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From: Lower Burrell PA
NCM Grand Opening Veteran
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 20,979
Likes: 384
From: South of giving a damn
St. Jude Donor '11, '17
As an engine builder who does this every day I am not a fan of cast cranks and if I am going to spend some ones money on a nicely machined block and good rods and pistons, Heads ETC. a 180 dollar crank is not my first choice.
When balancing a crank a drilling a cast crank its like cutting through butter compared to a nice 4340 crank!!
He is a quote I did on another site
When balancing a crank a drilling a cast crank its like cutting through butter compared to a nice 4340 crank!!
He is a quote I did on another site
I wish like hell that Dart had come out with the SHP a couple of years earlier. I was thinking my next engine would be a LSx, but now I'm no longer so sure.
NCM Grand Opening Veteran
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: South of giving a damn
St. Jude Donor '11, '17
compare this head to the Brodix
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
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Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
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From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Don't discount the roller block idea as quickly as you have. A roller cam will give you 50 HP and similar torque with a wider torque band with the same streetability in a 10 to 1 motor with the brodix heads. That is a huge difference.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 15
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Well, at least now I feel like I'm getting somewhere, 
. Good point on those summit heads. They look just like the Brodix heads. Anyone know if there are any major differences? I agree, the parts replacement on the side shows BRO. After a quick comparison, they are the exact replacement parts. Although, I wouldn't want something that is ported less than the Brodix that appears to be the same. May have to place a phone call..
So now I have another issue(solved, but with more money, ugh)....I am very thankful that someone pointed out the performer rpm will not align with the Brodix 200cc. The power band on the performer rpm is 1500-6500 and fits under the hood if used with a low air filter. I looked up the dimensions on the weiand 8150 and it is nearly the same height. Hence, I may have to spend that extra money on a carburetor for a weiand8150 (powerband 1500-6700) instead of re-tuning that Q-jet,
. It may come out better but my budget has become tight. (after you figure in the money on the heads and rotating assembly)
. Good point on those summit heads. They look just like the Brodix heads. Anyone know if there are any major differences? I agree, the parts replacement on the side shows BRO. After a quick comparison, they are the exact replacement parts. Although, I wouldn't want something that is ported less than the Brodix that appears to be the same. May have to place a phone call..So now I have another issue(solved, but with more money, ugh)....I am very thankful that someone pointed out the performer rpm will not align with the Brodix 200cc. The power band on the performer rpm is 1500-6500 and fits under the hood if used with a low air filter. I looked up the dimensions on the weiand 8150 and it is nearly the same height. Hence, I may have to spend that extra money on a carburetor for a weiand8150 (powerband 1500-6700) instead of re-tuning that Q-jet,
. It may come out better but my budget has become tight. (after you figure in the money on the heads and rotating assembly)
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 3
From: NORTHEAST
Not really saying that but we don't use cast cranks for our builds and if a customer asks about using a cast crank we just take out back and show them some of the borken ones we have taken out and that useally changes their mind real fast.
Liberty Engine parts had 8 Eagle cast 383 external balance cranks break last year and all broke the snouts off and this did not happen at just one shop.
I have had guys call about replacing theh cast crank with a Forged crank but no one has ever called wanting to replace their forged crank with an cast one.
Liberty Engine parts had 8 Eagle cast 383 external balance cranks break last year and all broke the snouts off and this did not happen at just one shop.
I have had guys call about replacing theh cast crank with a Forged crank but no one has ever called wanting to replace their forged crank with an cast one.
Instructor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
From: Lower Burrell PA
Hope I am not highjacking this thread, but I have a question for Blockman. I inherited a 350, four bolt main block with a spun main. Is this block worth having the work done to rebuild, which I understand would include align boring, or should it hit the scrap pile?
Thanks
Thanks
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 3
From: NORTHEAST
Hope I am not highjacking this thread, but I have a question for Blockman. I inherited a 350, four bolt main block with a spun main. Is this block worth having the work done to rebuild, which I understand would include align boring, or should it hit the scrap pile?
Thanks
Thanks
Most of the time we will try to fit an old cap up so we can just do a line hone and that runs about 185.00 dollars.
If its not cracked and sonic tests good I would keep it.
NCM Grand Opening Veteran
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: South of giving a damn
St. Jude Donor '11, '17
Now we are getting to the crux of the matter, you do have a budget 
OK, this is going to fly against what I did & what a lot of guys recommend, but you are building a street engine & need to have a fun car without going broke.
1. Use Dad's block (I would prefer that you find a roller block)
2. Forget the Brodix heads, Procomps are $600 on fleabay. You don't need the flow that the bigger heads will give you. Many people run Procomps & like them. Clean up any flashing & run. They are probably much better than the fuelie heads we all had wet dreams about in past days. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/350-3...Q5fAccessories
3. Get a balance Eagle cast kit on fleabay - $520. For what you are building hyperteutectic are fine, the factory uses them. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EAGLE...3A1|240%3A1318
4. Get a Qjet intake of your choice & use your carb
5. Go stock on everything else, maybe a 1 qt larger pan
6. Find the 2 1/2" rams horn exhaust manifolds (fleabay)
7. After the car is running & you are enjoying it you go for things like a MSD dizzy, headers, exhaust.
OK, this is going to fly against what I did & what a lot of guys recommend, but you are building a street engine & need to have a fun car without going broke.
1. Use Dad's block (I would prefer that you find a roller block)
2. Forget the Brodix heads, Procomps are $600 on fleabay. You don't need the flow that the bigger heads will give you. Many people run Procomps & like them. Clean up any flashing & run. They are probably much better than the fuelie heads we all had wet dreams about in past days. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/350-3...Q5fAccessories
3. Get a balance Eagle cast kit on fleabay - $520. For what you are building hyperteutectic are fine, the factory uses them. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EAGLE...3A1|240%3A1318
4. Get a Qjet intake of your choice & use your carb
5. Go stock on everything else, maybe a 1 qt larger pan
6. Find the 2 1/2" rams horn exhaust manifolds (fleabay)
7. After the car is running & you are enjoying it you go for things like a MSD dizzy, headers, exhaust.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
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From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
On my 383 build I used a 73 350 4 bolt main block, steel caps, ARP studs, Forged bottom end, Retro Roller, 500+ HP plus a 150 shot (occasional use). Builder said it shouldn't be an issue. Hope he is right. For what the machine work and retro roller cost the Dart SHP block looks like a bargain. Ratflinger is probably on the right track for a budget build.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 15
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I have $2500 cash right now...to spend on this. If I delay another month i will have about 3200. I am a teacher so I don't have a lot coming in the summer as far as income. Hence....32/3500 will be my cap. I REALLY want the power from those 200c intakes. I run into price problems when you start talking about getting new blocks. Those are expensive, 
I originally was going to just rebuild the 350 (but you know how that goes, lol). So, I wouldn't mind going hydraulic or solid, even if it did cost me 50hp as opposed to roller. I see the main thing here being going roller...to be, or not to be roller.
I originally was going to just rebuild the 350 (but you know how that goes, lol). So, I wouldn't mind going hydraulic or solid, even if it did cost me 50hp as opposed to roller. I see the main thing here being going roller...to be, or not to be roller.
Last edited by ShakeyrayStingray; Feb 15, 2009 at 12:38 PM.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
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From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
4 bolt main, Steel caps, ARP studs, Forged flat top rotating assembly, Vortec heads, Vortec Q-jet intake. Builds a solid bottom end 450 HP for now. Top end easily upgraded or will accept power adders later.
http://www.sdparts.com/catalog/engin...cHeadKits.aspx
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ine/index.html $3200 build
http://www.sdparts.com/catalog/engin...cHeadKits.aspx
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ine/index.html $3200 build
Last edited by 63mako; Feb 15, 2009 at 01:21 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,339
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From: Seattle Area WA
Why use cheap crappy heads like procomp, you get what you pay for. If you look at the Brodix site, there is only a few cfm difference between the 200cc head and the IK180s. Since you ruled out the hi lift roller you are not going to use them to capability. Do procomps even flow air??
I'm with Carl, why risk $500 or more of block work on a cheap cast crank. Plenty of broken SCAT cast cranks, even Lars reported seeing them occuring.
I'm with Carl, why risk $500 or more of block work on a cheap cast crank. Plenty of broken SCAT cast cranks, even Lars reported seeing them occuring.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Well, those summit heads are only $949 and are identical to those IK200's. I was leaning that way. So the IK200/summit aluminum will not work well with a hydraulic or even solid cam? Actually, my dad has a 90's model block also. However, I may 'owe' him if he gives me that one. I am very indecisive.
I was just eating thinking about why I didn't want to go roller. I had read that you can float a lifter ( i know i know Scott...stop reading other sites - that was something I read a week ago). Anyhow, I am not going to have rpm's reving that high. Hence, roller would be the way to go to increase my torque band like mentioned above. I would have more money to spend .... but I am looking to get a ring afte summer....I would be in trouble if she found out how much I am spending, LOL.
Also, I realized the rotating assembly is cheaper for the roller block. More money saved, yay. So, I am partially where I started except a roller block.
I was just eating thinking about why I didn't want to go roller. I had read that you can float a lifter ( i know i know Scott...stop reading other sites - that was something I read a week ago). Anyhow, I am not going to have rpm's reving that high. Hence, roller would be the way to go to increase my torque band like mentioned above. I would have more money to spend .... but I am looking to get a ring afte summer....I would be in trouble if she found out how much I am spending, LOL.
Also, I realized the rotating assembly is cheaper for the roller block. More money saved, yay. So, I am partially where I started except a roller block.
Last edited by ShakeyrayStingray; Feb 15, 2009 at 02:00 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
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Find a good machine shop take your fathers 4 bolt block down have it checked out if its ok use it.
The brodix 200 head has been used with the edlebrock rpm manifolds by forum members and by chevy high perfomamce ragazine in a manifold test. just use the rpm Q-Jet manifold #7104.
Your Q-jet has a 750 cfm capacity its plenty big enough for any reasonable rpm 383, no sense if your on a budget having to spend several hundred for another carb.
A soild flat tappit is inexpensive will make better power then a hydraulic flat tappit.
Buy a scat IB forged crank, forged pistons rotating kit, then you are pretty much set for any kind of power level you would like to have now or in the future.
Use the 200 runner head its fine for a 383, gives beathing for any future upgrades in power, you use the 180 head your stuck with it.
The brodix 200 head has been used with the edlebrock rpm manifolds by forum members and by chevy high perfomamce ragazine in a manifold test. just use the rpm Q-Jet manifold #7104.
Your Q-jet has a 750 cfm capacity its plenty big enough for any reasonable rpm 383, no sense if your on a budget having to spend several hundred for another carb.
A soild flat tappit is inexpensive will make better power then a hydraulic flat tappit.
Buy a scat IB forged crank, forged pistons rotating kit, then you are pretty much set for any kind of power level you would like to have now or in the future.
Use the 200 runner head its fine for a 383, gives beathing for any future upgrades in power, you use the 180 head your stuck with it.
Last edited by Little Mouse; Feb 15, 2009 at 03:42 PM.