Hi,
Looking to upgrade my starter for my BB to a high torque one, are there any models to stay clear of or some that you would recommend without question.
I have always had problems shimming it to correct specs as it will never mesh properly and i have taken it to a good mechanic and tried to see if they could do any better, but they said they could not shim it as close as it should be also as i said. it seems fine for a few months then i get problems where it starts to slip when cranking the engine over.

Peter

 

Can't help with your starter question, but you will also have to shim a high torque one, and this seems to be the real issue.

 

Every h/t starter i've seen pics of have bolt holes in a parralel line but the stock BB starters have offset holes which as i'm lead to beleive that there is only a limited amount of shims you can use, due to the fact that as you shim the starter it starts to twist as the holes are not parralel.
Any other imput is greatly accepted

Peter

 

My 68 L36 ate a starter every year, or so it seemed. And killed batteries because it drew so much current. I got one of those high torque mini starters from Summit for about a hunderd bucks. Problem solved. She cranks much faster. With the QJet going dry, this is the hot ticket. One of the best upgrades I have made.

 

Thats what i'm hopeing as ive had about six different starters and 4 new pinions in 15 years and i'm sick of changing it.
Any advice on shimming or am i right?

 

I'm not sure about shimming. I put the starter in, kissed the key to the start position to see if it woud spin and the damn thing fired up. The side of the car was still way up in the air in my driveway. Scared the you-know-what outta me. I say put it in and test it.

 

Most GM starters do not need shims. Get yourself a heavy duty original starter. They do come two ways you know, a high torque {HD} and a light duty {LD} that look identical except for the field post is about 3/4 of an inch behind the solenoid switch with a copper 3/4 extension.. You guys do too much reading and wind up behind the 8 Ball. A high torque Delco is your best bet. No problems fitting either. Some Parts Stores with not very intelligent countermen do not know there *** from a hole in the ground. If they dont know or cant identify a HD starter, run out the door and find a different parts store. ...

 

The last three starters have been HD delcos and they all go the same way they strip the teeth off the pinion, As i cannot shim them close enough to the flexplate Why???? so they are not working for me!!! So i need an alternative so please can some of you give me advice about shimming as if the teeth do not mesh properly they will in time get stripped, or what HT starters have done the job for them.

 

put a new ring gear on the flywheel, If automatic replace the flex plate

 

I used a gear driven Chev. truck mini stater from Advance store, I believe a 98 Chev. 1500 truck starter is what I have on a 383 highcompression small block. It should also fit the big block Chev. I have had very good service with this setup, it is very small and lightweight and spins over very fast. About $129 with a lifetime warranty.

 

I have the www.summitracing.com summit brand of the powermaster highest TQ mini starter.

My concern is why are you eating them up, when they should last for 20 years?

If you can get %50 or slightly better tooth engagement is all you need.

You need to be under the car and short the selenoid so it kicks the gear tooth into the 168 tooth. You shim up and down under both bolts to get the max contact.

 

Thaks for you replies, keep them comming as i need help for this one and i need a little guidance
The Flexplate is only 3 years old and the teeth are like new,

gkull I have the www.summitracing.com summit brand of the powermaster highest TQ mini starter.

My concern is why are you eating them up, when they should last for 20 years?

If you can get %50 or slightly better tooth engagement is all you need.

You need to be under the car and short the selenoid so it kicks the gear tooth into the 168 tooth. You shim up and down under both bolts to get the max contact.

I have in the past shimmed it to specs which say that there should be 25-30 thou where the teeth mesh or 3/16th inch between f/plate and the starter shaft but it took so many shims to get it to that position that the starter was not square with the f/plate, and as a result shattered within 9 months as the pinion is f/plate at an angle, I'm not a mechanic by trade but have made a couple of mistakes in the past on the car over the last 15 years but have learnt from them, but this one i have not been able to sort out.
As i said earlier the reason for the mini starter is as i believe the bolt holes in the M/S have parallel holes and they can be shimmed closer to the f/plate and it will not run out of line as the stock starters do.
Keep it comming please i've got to get there eventually.

Peter

P.S. just wondered if it could be a problem with the block being thicker at the mounting flange so the starter is further away from the f/plate than it should be due to the casting not being ground down enough, anyone heard of anything like this before.

 

Shimming only moves the starter motor in a verticle plain. I've never shimmed any starter motor more than .020 or so max.

So I have no idea how yours ***** the motor

Here is my setup.

You can see the shim above the gold block

 

I thought that if you add shims to both that it would take the starter further away from the f/plate to get it closer you have to shim it on the outside to turn it in.
I had the starter with no shims at first and still had problems with it like that.
Is it possible that the pinions are getting trashed because i have alot of initial advance (18 deg) at idle and it does kick back at times whilst cranking.

Look at this pdf doc on shimming ::
http://static.summitracing.com/globa...42_starter.pdf

 

I've never seen instructions like that.

I've never had to even think about cocking the gear with shims to get it close to the flex plate. It is a fixed distance. For 40+ years the block, the crank mounting surface, and the ring gear/flex plate are always the same. So why would anybody dork with the starter unless it was made wrong in China or some where.

I put my different ministarters on different motors and only checked tooth engagement.

My mini was only 50%. that is least I've ever seen so I called them and ask if it was OK? They said that was fine. That is on very high compression motors without a failure.

Your statement about kick back is disturbing. Your motor should not do that. I also use 18 degrees advance and a total of 32-34

 

gkull
It has only started to kick back in the last couple of years since i changed my heads and i have been playing with timing to eliminate intermittant off idle backfire out of the carb. so i am still a little stumped as to what path to go to sort it out, i must say it has taken more pinions out since i advanced the timing, but i have tried more shims as well so i not sure of the cause
I think i will go with a high torque starter and just hope it is the last one i have to get as i'm sick of removing them as the are so friggin heavy.
what do you think of the issue of the possible bad casting on the block.????? Ever heard of it?

Peter

 

I've never had to even think about cocking the gear with shims to get it close to the flex plate. It is a fixed distance. For 40+ years the chevy block, the crank mounting surface, and the ring gear/flex plate are always the same. So why would anybody dork with the starter unless it was made wrong in China or some where?

Off idle pop. That is called lean popping. Your squiter cam has to react with just the slightest slow movement of the throttle.

With the motor off. Start to move the throttle very slow and the squirters should get wet with dribble coming out. If not adjust the cam arms for instant movement. How old is the carb and what model is it?

Your power valve ciurcut should also kick in and enrichen at any drop in vacuum.

maybe verify that it is a 6.5 PV I've never had good luck with higher or lower values

 

Carb is an edelbrock 750 performer manual choke (1407) it is set on the max setting on the squirter but if i keep the timing to 16-18deg no pop at 12 she will pop some of the time. The problem is not as bad as bad as it was at 12 deg since ichanged the trans and T/C to a 2400 stall due to less load on the engine when i stamp on it off idle i would imagine. It did use to solve the problem if i gave it a fraction of choke but ended going up one rod size on the primarys and that seemed better.
Is it possible to increase the squirter size in the performer carb.


Carb is 12 years old, 15 to 20,000 miles

 

I ran the same carb for about 10 years. Only I didn't even have a choke.

You have to get the piston spring kit. That way you can change how fast the rods move with minor changes in vacuum.

You can swing the little piston cover plates 1/2 over out of the way and start the motor. The pistons should instantly move with the throttle changes.

I think that I used a lighter spring. Polish the piston so it doesn't have any drag and use spray silicone on it.

 

I am very happy with my Powermaster. Got it from Summit several years ago.