Tall deck big block with hooker sidepipe headers?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,038
Likes: 3
From: Clinton IL
Tall deck big block with hooker sidepipe headers?
Any reason why you can...can't fit hooker side pipe headers with a tall deck big block?
Also - how much taller is the tall deck?
THANKS!
Also - how much taller is the tall deck?
THANKS!
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: Coldbrook Nova Scotia
The tall deck is 10.2 inches and the passenger block is 9.8 ,this is only 400. of an inch however it really does make ALOT of difference and can cause alot of extra headaches.not familiar with the side pipes but you will have header isues along with steering box issues.the extra height will likely cause the side pipes to be sitting too high and tight against the sil..but then again you can make anything work.....
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,123
Likes: 433
From: Gladstone MO
C3 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
That little .400 of an inch changes lots of things. The heads set farther apart, not just higher. I've seen a couple of C-3's with a tall deck and it's way tight. It can be done, but for sure it's dosen't look like a drop in.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,038
Likes: 3
From: Clinton IL
Okay...if I run the block I'm looking at I'll be using a steeroid rack - so no gear box...but I will have to get around the tubes with the input shaft.
I had TZracer measure his 540 cube (non tall deck) block from the lifter valley lip to the top of his air cleaner on a L88 hood (where his air cleaner virtually touches the hood) and came up with 11 inches. The motor I'm looking at (8.1 Vortec) is 10.5 from the deck up - which I guess means it is RIGHT at 11" when you factor the .400...right?
Are accessories an issue with the tall deck? In other words...can you use any big block accessory brackets...or do you run into trouble there too?
I think the 572 block is tall...right? I know we have some guys here with those in the frame rails....but I can't think of who they are at this momoment to see what other issues they ran into.
I had TZracer measure his 540 cube (non tall deck) block from the lifter valley lip to the top of his air cleaner on a L88 hood (where his air cleaner virtually touches the hood) and came up with 11 inches. The motor I'm looking at (8.1 Vortec) is 10.5 from the deck up - which I guess means it is RIGHT at 11" when you factor the .400...right?
Are accessories an issue with the tall deck? In other words...can you use any big block accessory brackets...or do you run into trouble there too?
I think the 572 block is tall...right? I know we have some guys here with those in the frame rails....but I can't think of who they are at this momoment to see what other issues they ran into.
Intermediate
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
I would skip the 8.1 vortec as there is not much in the way of an after market for that motor, and it really is designed for producing rediculous amounts of low end torque which is great for towing, but not for reving. It has the same bore as the 454 but uses a longer stroke. A 502 on the other hand uses the same stroke as a 454 but has a larger bore which should be better for higher rpm use. Have you considered building/buying a 502? Using the older Mark IV engines has several advantages, including provisions for running a distributor, plenty of aftermarket heads and parts to choose from (ex headers) and has wide variety of intakes available as well.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,038
Likes: 3
From: Clinton IL
I would skip the 8.1 vortec as there is not much in the way of an after market for that motor, and it really is designed for producing rediculous amounts of low end torque which is great for towing, but not for reving. It has the same bore as the 454 but uses a longer stroke. A 502 on the other hand uses the same stroke as a 454 but has a larger bore which should be better for higher rpm use. Have you considered building/buying a 502? Using the older Mark IV engines has several advantages, including provisions for running a distributor, plenty of aftermarket heads and parts to choose from (ex headers) and has wide variety of intakes available as well.
Yep...but that isn't the purpose of this build. Raylar performance has killer aluminum heads, cams, roller rockers...etc for these motors that will turn 700 hp if desired. As it stands rated at 330 (through stock manifolds and tuning) it cranks out 500 ft pounds of torque.
What is soooo cool about this idea is the motor runs on the same electronics as a LS1...has the eight coils, 8 injectors, no distributor...etc. and has provision on the accessory mounts to go with the low tight a/c...etc. It also has a drive by wire throttle body mounted up front just like a LSx. The drive by wire allows for cruise control simply through a switch tied to the module...how cool is that?
This tied to a ROD 6 will provide incredible smooth cruising, and gut wrenching low hard acceleration with effortless amounts of throttle. Also, it can run 87 octane and should get incredible cruising mpg in 6th gear.
It will give the shark the full programming advantages of a LSx motor...with all the torque and eye popping visual of the traditional big block.
I just have to work out this tall deck stuff...
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,620
Likes: 7
From: Orlando Florida
Yep...but that isn't the purpose of this build. Raylar performance has killer aluminum heads, cams, roller rockers...etc for these motors that will turn 700 hp if desired. As it stands rated at 330 (through stock manifolds and tuning) it cranks out 500 ft pounds of torque.
What is soooo cool about this idea is the motor runs on the same electronics as a LS1...has the eight coils, 8 injectors, no distributor...etc. and has provision on the accessory mounts to go with the low tight a/c...etc. It also has a drive by wire throttle body mounted up front just like a LSx. The drive by wire allows for cruise control simply through a switch tied to the module...how cool is that?
This tied to a ROD 6 will provide incredible smooth cruising, and gut wrenching low hard acceleration with effortless amounts of throttle. Also, it can run 87 octane and should get incredible cruising mpg in 6th gear.
It will give the shark the full programming advantages of a LSx motor...with all the torque and eye popping visual of the traditional big block.
I just have to work out this tall deck stuff...
What is soooo cool about this idea is the motor runs on the same electronics as a LS1...has the eight coils, 8 injectors, no distributor...etc. and has provision on the accessory mounts to go with the low tight a/c...etc. It also has a drive by wire throttle body mounted up front just like a LSx. The drive by wire allows for cruise control simply through a switch tied to the module...how cool is that?
This tied to a ROD 6 will provide incredible smooth cruising, and gut wrenching low hard acceleration with effortless amounts of throttle. Also, it can run 87 octane and should get incredible cruising mpg in 6th gear.
It will give the shark the full programming advantages of a LSx motor...with all the torque and eye popping visual of the traditional big block.
I just have to work out this tall deck stuff...
Intermediate
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Yep...but that isn't the purpose of this build. Raylar performance has killer aluminum heads, cams, roller rockers...etc for these motors that will turn 700 hp if desired. As it stands rated at 330 (through stock manifolds and tuning) it cranks out 500 ft pounds of torque.
What is soooo cool about this idea is the motor runs on the same electronics as a LS1...has the eight coils, 8 injectors, no distributor...etc. and has provision on the accessory mounts to go with the low tight a/c...etc. It also has a drive by wire throttle body mounted up front just like a LSx. The drive by wire allows for cruise control simply through a switch tied to the module...how cool is that?
This tied to a ROD 6 will provide incredible smooth cruising, and gut wrenching low hard acceleration with effortless amounts of throttle. Also, it can run 87 octane and should get incredible cruising mpg in 6th gear.
It will give the shark the full programming advantages of a LSx motor...with all the torque and eye popping visual of the traditional big block.
I just have to work out this tall deck stuff...
What is soooo cool about this idea is the motor runs on the same electronics as a LS1...has the eight coils, 8 injectors, no distributor...etc. and has provision on the accessory mounts to go with the low tight a/c...etc. It also has a drive by wire throttle body mounted up front just like a LSx. The drive by wire allows for cruise control simply through a switch tied to the module...how cool is that?
This tied to a ROD 6 will provide incredible smooth cruising, and gut wrenching low hard acceleration with effortless amounts of throttle. Also, it can run 87 octane and should get incredible cruising mpg in 6th gear.
It will give the shark the full programming advantages of a LSx motor...with all the torque and eye popping visual of the traditional big block.
I just have to work out this tall deck stuff...
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Race Director
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 10,040
Likes: 672
From: FL
I do know that Moroso Racing was originally looking at a 572 tall deck block for their '68 project. That was getting too complicated so they planned on a 540. Now it is an LS-7 is the planned powerplant.
http://www.morosoracing.com/default.asp
http://www.morosoracing.com/default.asp
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 30,183
Likes: 313
From: Lake Norman NC
Yep...but that isn't the purpose of this build. Raylar performance has killer aluminum heads, cams, roller rockers...etc for these motors that will turn 700 hp if desired. As it stands rated at 330 (through stock manifolds and tuning) it cranks out 500 ft pounds of torque.
What is soooo cool about this idea is the motor runs on the same electronics as a LS1...has the eight coils, 8 injectors, no distributor...etc. and has provision on the accessory mounts to go with the low tight a/c...etc. It also has a drive by wire throttle body mounted up front just like a LSx. The drive by wire allows for cruise control simply through a switch tied to the module...how cool is that?
This tied to a ROD 6 will provide incredible smooth cruising, and gut wrenching low hard acceleration with effortless amounts of throttle. Also, it can run 87 octane and should get incredible cruising mpg in 6th gear.
It will give the shark the full programming advantages of a LSx motor...with all the torque and eye popping visual of the traditional big block.
I just have to work out this tall deck stuff...
What is soooo cool about this idea is the motor runs on the same electronics as a LS1...has the eight coils, 8 injectors, no distributor...etc. and has provision on the accessory mounts to go with the low tight a/c...etc. It also has a drive by wire throttle body mounted up front just like a LSx. The drive by wire allows for cruise control simply through a switch tied to the module...how cool is that?
This tied to a ROD 6 will provide incredible smooth cruising, and gut wrenching low hard acceleration with effortless amounts of throttle. Also, it can run 87 octane and should get incredible cruising mpg in 6th gear.
It will give the shark the full programming advantages of a LSx motor...with all the torque and eye popping visual of the traditional big block.
I just have to work out this tall deck stuff...
Heel & Toe
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: Surrey BC
A tall deck with sidepipes does fit. But it is tight. I put a 572 in my 79 with hooker side mounts.
The 572 is a tight fit with the tall valve covers and the low oilpan. If you use a tall deck with short style valve covers you should be alright. I had to instal a hydroboost unit and i had to shim (1/8) the left motor mount for firewall clearance and steering link clearance to the oil pan.
I am pretty sure that the 572 has raised exhast ports also on the heads. So this also creates a little less room for the headers.
The right header fits perfect with no problems
The left header needed to be dented for steering box clearance (very small amount). The tubes hit the frame on the out side so i had to spend some time denting and fitting. But i suspect if you could do the install with out the spacer under the motor mount this would not be an issue.
The 572 is a tight fit with the tall valve covers and the low oilpan. If you use a tall deck with short style valve covers you should be alright. I had to instal a hydroboost unit and i had to shim (1/8) the left motor mount for firewall clearance and steering link clearance to the oil pan.
I am pretty sure that the 572 has raised exhast ports also on the heads. So this also creates a little less room for the headers.
The right header fits perfect with no problems
The left header needed to be dented for steering box clearance (very small amount). The tubes hit the frame on the out side so i had to spend some time denting and fitting. But i suspect if you could do the install with out the spacer under the motor mount this would not be an issue.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,038
Likes: 3
From: Clinton IL
Well - it is in the hole...and it just barely fits. The plan right now is to have the pan cut down - it clears the cross member and steering rack like a champ - but the sump is too low by 3" or so. I have to really get creative on how I attach to the throttle body - which is a DBW too. Painless will do the goods on the wires - then it will use all GM PCM, gas pedal...etc.
Waiting on word on the hooker side mounts now - in these pictures I have the stock manifolds on just to see if they would clear - which they do. There are two accessory systems for these cars - one with the a/c high adn one low. I believe the one with it high will work. Oh...I will have to notch/pound in the front cross member as this is a long leg style pump system. I had to do that on my last 69 as I used a twin serp system that required a long leg pump on that car.
Waiting on word on the hooker side mounts now - in these pictures I have the stock manifolds on just to see if they would clear - which they do. There are two accessory systems for these cars - one with the a/c high adn one low. I believe the one with it high will work. Oh...I will have to notch/pound in the front cross member as this is a long leg style pump system. I had to do that on my last 69 as I used a twin serp system that required a long leg pump on that car.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,038
Likes: 3
From: Clinton IL
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,060
Likes: 46
From: winter haven florida
St. Jude Donor '12
too bad you are not in fl, i have a friend that is amazing with building custom headers. your hookers could be cut and adjusted to fit if need be. anything can be made to work. you just have to find the right fabricator.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,038
Likes: 3
From: Clinton IL
Yep...just moved here from Auburndale, FL in March.
Who is your guy - perhaps I know him - would it be the Fab Tech guys off Recker Hwy...would it?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,060
Likes: 46
From: winter haven florida
St. Jude Donor '12
not the fab tech guys, i do know them though. dan eckart, works off executive rd. in winter haven in the evenings. has built some really radical top quality customs. he has a true gift for the art of fabrication.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,038
Likes: 3
From: Clinton IL
Okay...
The headers may be here (I hope they are here today)...but at least soon.
I have the engine up and running now, but just with stock manifolds and no exhaust...
What? What is that ringing in my ears...what?
Anyway....I'll know very soon, and hope they aren't too much of a pain.
What I am most worried about right now is if they will clear the starter. The way cool late model 8.1 start tilts out. I can swap to an older 8.1 more standard, but this litttle monster rocks...and sounds like a high output sportbike when you hit the go button.
Everybody think good thoughts for these and the UPS guy...that he is on the way today! LOL!
The headers may be here (I hope they are here today)...but at least soon.
I have the engine up and running now, but just with stock manifolds and no exhaust...
What? What is that ringing in my ears...what?
Anyway....I'll know very soon, and hope they aren't too much of a pain.
What I am most worried about right now is if they will clear the starter. The way cool late model 8.1 start tilts out. I can swap to an older 8.1 more standard, but this litttle monster rocks...and sounds like a high output sportbike when you hit the go button.
Everybody think good thoughts for these and the UPS guy...that he is on the way today! LOL!
