Places to Look For Rust
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Places to Look For Rust
Paragon's Rust Album
I have a basket case, so I thought I would post a few pictures of the problem spots others should look out for.
I created the happy little album above for everyone's viewing pleasure. I'm not sure how to post them in here, but they're all in the album. The objective was to have a list of places to check when checking out a car for purchase or for a friend or who knows the uses! Pictures are before the description of the problem. In some places there are two pictures for a description, Core Supt Left and Right, you can figure it out
In the gallery this description is with each picture, so either the gallery or this thread will hold all of this information. They're all named, but I'll answer any questions or more pics as requested.
First up on the easy to check list is the radiator core support. Lie down in front of the car, behind the headlight access holes in the front bumper there is a black air-dam. Behind that there is a metal brace that goes from one side of the car to the other, if rusty, this is not good. You can also see in this picture a sway bar covered in surface rust. I believe this is responsible for handling and toe control. If this bar has no rust I would be surprised, but more than just surface rust I would be scared. You can also see the suspension bushings and lower components, same concern as the sway bar, more than surface rust leads to a loss of control while driving when the part breaks.
Next is the rear frame and fuel line. In the back passenger wheel well there is an easy sight line above the wheel to see the frame rail. Surface rust is ok, but more than that is an issue. Running along the top of that frame component is the fuel line. I would recommend no rust.
If you look a bit to your left inside the wheel well (towards the back of the car) there is a body mount. As you can see in the pictures these bushings go bad with time. If they look like mine the car will rattle and creak like heck. I don't know if they affect drivability other than that. I do know that if the bolt is rusted, like mine, it will be a nightmare to remove.
Looking under the back of the car we see, on mine, a whole lot that is normally blocked by the spare tire carrier. However, if you peer around this obstruction you should be able to see a different view of the frame rails, and the exhaust system. Peering further towards the front of the car are the leaf spring, is it flat or curved downward at the ends?, The half shafts, rusty?, and differential carrier, wet?.
Inside the car there is access to more body mounts. This may be covered by a panel in a car with a complete interior, but mine never was. I'd take the time to remove the screws and look at this if there is a panel, since it appears this is where water will accumulate if the car has a leaking windshield header, next. As a note, every interior panel I have removed has changed somewhat upon removal, and may be difficult to replace. I would be sure to get the owner's permission before removing any interior bits, or be a lot bigger than the seller.
Near the VIN trim tag, looking through the windshield, do you see rust? The part pictured in my gallery isn't even made anymore, although I plan to try to make one, and possibly many, soon, my shop is still not ready. Currently if this piece is rusted through as mine is, the structural integrity of the A-Pillar is suspect, and it needs to be custom fabricated to be replaced. Additionally, the water leaking through here ends up inside the car, causing wiring problems, and the rust seen in the body mount picture. Very bad.
Inside the engine bay I have two places where the rust is pretty obvious. The A-Arms pictured only have surface rust so I'm not terribly concerned about them. However, if the rust is more substantial, this is something that can be a very bad situation.
The steering rag joint pictured shows what a sloppy rag joint looks like, and what a rusty steering column looks like. Both are problems. The rust on the column looks bad, but is really only surface rust. If this rust were much worse it could lead to a disconnect between what the wheels do and what the steering wheel does. I would be sure to check the integrity of this part. The rag joint just means that there is some (in my case, 1-1/2 to 2 inches) of slop between when you turn the wheel and when the car reacts. This is on center behavior and is something I adapted to fairly quickly, but is something that makes most others very nervous.
The last picture isn't strictly rust, but it is oxidation. This is the radiator turning a lovely shade of green. I'm not sure if this indicates impending failure or not, but I can't imagine that it is good for the car. Mine has been like that for at least 14 months and has not failed yet, no leaks or anything, and when running the car runs at a normal temperature.
If you have questions, or corrections, please do not hesitate to list them here, and if you're right, I'll even edit the original thread.
I will take more pictures of other stuff I am looking at on this car (since I'm not driving it). Expect more galleries in the future.
Paragon
I have a basket case, so I thought I would post a few pictures of the problem spots others should look out for.
I created the happy little album above for everyone's viewing pleasure. I'm not sure how to post them in here, but they're all in the album. The objective was to have a list of places to check when checking out a car for purchase or for a friend or who knows the uses! Pictures are before the description of the problem. In some places there are two pictures for a description, Core Supt Left and Right, you can figure it out
In the gallery this description is with each picture, so either the gallery or this thread will hold all of this information. They're all named, but I'll answer any questions or more pics as requested.First up on the easy to check list is the radiator core support. Lie down in front of the car, behind the headlight access holes in the front bumper there is a black air-dam. Behind that there is a metal brace that goes from one side of the car to the other, if rusty, this is not good. You can also see in this picture a sway bar covered in surface rust. I believe this is responsible for handling and toe control. If this bar has no rust I would be surprised, but more than just surface rust I would be scared. You can also see the suspension bushings and lower components, same concern as the sway bar, more than surface rust leads to a loss of control while driving when the part breaks.
Next is the rear frame and fuel line. In the back passenger wheel well there is an easy sight line above the wheel to see the frame rail. Surface rust is ok, but more than that is an issue. Running along the top of that frame component is the fuel line. I would recommend no rust.
If you look a bit to your left inside the wheel well (towards the back of the car) there is a body mount. As you can see in the pictures these bushings go bad with time. If they look like mine the car will rattle and creak like heck. I don't know if they affect drivability other than that. I do know that if the bolt is rusted, like mine, it will be a nightmare to remove.
Looking under the back of the car we see, on mine, a whole lot that is normally blocked by the spare tire carrier. However, if you peer around this obstruction you should be able to see a different view of the frame rails, and the exhaust system. Peering further towards the front of the car are the leaf spring, is it flat or curved downward at the ends?, The half shafts, rusty?, and differential carrier, wet?.
Inside the car there is access to more body mounts. This may be covered by a panel in a car with a complete interior, but mine never was. I'd take the time to remove the screws and look at this if there is a panel, since it appears this is where water will accumulate if the car has a leaking windshield header, next. As a note, every interior panel I have removed has changed somewhat upon removal, and may be difficult to replace. I would be sure to get the owner's permission before removing any interior bits, or be a lot bigger than the seller.
Near the VIN trim tag, looking through the windshield, do you see rust? The part pictured in my gallery isn't even made anymore, although I plan to try to make one, and possibly many, soon, my shop is still not ready. Currently if this piece is rusted through as mine is, the structural integrity of the A-Pillar is suspect, and it needs to be custom fabricated to be replaced. Additionally, the water leaking through here ends up inside the car, causing wiring problems, and the rust seen in the body mount picture. Very bad.
Inside the engine bay I have two places where the rust is pretty obvious. The A-Arms pictured only have surface rust so I'm not terribly concerned about them. However, if the rust is more substantial, this is something that can be a very bad situation.
The steering rag joint pictured shows what a sloppy rag joint looks like, and what a rusty steering column looks like. Both are problems. The rust on the column looks bad, but is really only surface rust. If this rust were much worse it could lead to a disconnect between what the wheels do and what the steering wheel does. I would be sure to check the integrity of this part. The rag joint just means that there is some (in my case, 1-1/2 to 2 inches) of slop between when you turn the wheel and when the car reacts. This is on center behavior and is something I adapted to fairly quickly, but is something that makes most others very nervous.
The last picture isn't strictly rust, but it is oxidation. This is the radiator turning a lovely shade of green. I'm not sure if this indicates impending failure or not, but I can't imagine that it is good for the car. Mine has been like that for at least 14 months and has not failed yet, no leaks or anything, and when running the car runs at a normal temperature.
If you have questions, or corrections, please do not hesitate to list them here, and if you're right, I'll even edit the original thread.
I will take more pictures of other stuff I am looking at on this car (since I'm not driving it). Expect more galleries in the future.
Paragon
Last edited by paragonspirit; Jul 5, 2009 at 10:20 PM. Reason: Add Pictures As Alan 71 Suggested.
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Hi P,
Your pictures and description are GOOD. People are always asking about rust and where to look for it.
I think it would be more useful to people if your comments appeared with the appropriate picture. It's too much flipping back and forth now. It's really easy to add the pictures to the body of the post from a site like Photobucket and others.
Nice Job!
Regards,
Alan
Your pictures and description are GOOD. People are always asking about rust and where to look for it.
I think it would be more useful to people if your comments appeared with the appropriate picture. It's too much flipping back and forth now. It's really easy to add the pictures to the body of the post from a site like Photobucket and others.
Nice Job!
Regards,
Alan
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Joined: Jun 2008
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wnmech, I'm honored!
A few notes pointed out by my fiancée.
The car is a 1975, my objective was only to look at places where it was essentially universal, and possible to look at without taking anything off the car, so a seemingly casual inspection can tell you if it is a walk or talk car.
The car is an east coast car, I bought it in MD, live in NJ, and it was worked on in the 70s or 80s in coastal Virginia. This makes it more susceptible to rust than an Arizona car. However, if I really wanted to sell this car and get a bunch of $ from it, you'd better believe I'd sell it in AZ so nobody checked for rust. Be wary.
If this becomes a sticky, it has occurred to me that It should probably be in the Want to Buy and/or General sections, since I don't offer solutions on how to fix any of these problems, just what to look out for. I also will be posting a separate post (unless this is really a sticky) on how to find out if Bubba re-wired your car without taking it apart. This is in the same theme of don't buy a nightmare without knowing it.
Mine was bought as a driver project that has devolved over the past 8 years into a project, and was never actually safe to drive (it has also cost far more than a full project that was fixed, or a fully restored C-3). I want to help the rest of the members of the forum avoid this sort of problem.
A few notes pointed out by my fiancée.
The car is a 1975, my objective was only to look at places where it was essentially universal, and possible to look at without taking anything off the car, so a seemingly casual inspection can tell you if it is a walk or talk car.
The car is an east coast car, I bought it in MD, live in NJ, and it was worked on in the 70s or 80s in coastal Virginia. This makes it more susceptible to rust than an Arizona car. However, if I really wanted to sell this car and get a bunch of $ from it, you'd better believe I'd sell it in AZ so nobody checked for rust. Be wary.
If this becomes a sticky, it has occurred to me that It should probably be in the Want to Buy and/or General sections, since I don't offer solutions on how to fix any of these problems, just what to look out for. I also will be posting a separate post (unless this is really a sticky) on how to find out if Bubba re-wired your car without taking it apart. This is in the same theme of don't buy a nightmare without knowing it.
Mine was bought as a driver project that has devolved over the past 8 years into a project, and was never actually safe to drive (it has also cost far more than a full project that was fixed, or a fully restored C-3). I want to help the rest of the members of the forum avoid this sort of problem.
