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What is numbers matching

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Old Jan 4, 2010 | 07:51 PM
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Default What is numbers matching

What is numbers matching mean and what are the numbers that match
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Old Jan 4, 2010 | 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ettevroc 37
What is numbers matching mean and what are the numbers that match
Depending on whom you talk to, the definition of a “matching numbers” car may vary. A classic car purist might say that a truly original, matching numbers car will still have all the parts that it was manufactured with, including the tiniest nut and bolt. That would be very hard to find in an older car, so a more practical definition might be that all the parts will be either from the assembly line at the time of production or have been replaced with authentic NOS (new old stock) parts.

The most general use of the term “matching numbers” would mean that the engine and transmission are marked with the same sequence number as the chassis VIN number, and the rear axle/differential’s date code and casting number corresponds with the vehicle that's being checked.
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Old Jan 4, 2010 | 08:26 PM
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There are many many different interpretations of a
"numbers matching" Corvette.

Here are the two extremes.....

As a buyer, we would like numbers matching to represent a complete unmolested car with all the original components.... motor, gearbox, diff, carb, intake exhaust etc etc etc.... any part that has a number on it, should be correct for that year car. This is what teh NCRS crowd look for.

As a seller, numbers matching usually means that the engine serial number matches the chassis/body number.

On C3's there is a number on the left side front window upright....
The number there, includes the serial number of the engine when it left the factory.
If the serial number stamped on the engine block is included in the chassis number, a seller would call it a "numbers matching" car

Of course, numbers can be restamped on engine blocks, can't they.

At the end of the day, you need to be aware of what you are looking at, and what you want the car for.
If you're looking for an NCRS correct car, and it's certified, you will pay the price.
If you want a good reliable fun car, and want to make a few mods, don't be worried about numbers matching.... just ensure that the car is reliable, drives well, and is legal. And have fun.

Corvettes were designed to be driven!

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Old Jan 4, 2010 | 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ettevroc 37
What is numbers matching mean
For the most part, it means not a lot of HP.
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Old Jan 4, 2010 | 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by GREGG-73
Depending on whom you talk to, the definition of a “matching numbers” car may vary. A classic car purist might say that a truly original, matching numbers car will still have all the parts that it was manufactured with, including the tiniest nut and bolt. That would be very hard to find in an older car, so a more practical definition might be that all the parts will be either from the assembly line at the time of production or have been replaced with authentic NOS (new old stock) parts.

The most general use of the term “matching numbers” would mean that the engine and transmission are marked with the same sequence number as the chassis VIN number, and the rear axle/differential’s date code and casting number corresponds with the vehicle that's being checked.

Gregg has made many a good comment here.
Too many people are putting too much into numbers matching cars today. It has taken away from the hobby of owning classic cars, not just Corvettes, but others as well. You are almost lead to believe that you have become some kind of second class citizen(collector) or even shunned by some if your numbers do not match. There is a lot of beautiful cars out there, that many people have spent hours and hours to make them look good, and I feel, yes, that matching numbers are a good thing for the originality of the cars, but to some and I think I can say, majority it just a fun hobby.
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Old Jan 4, 2010 | 10:22 PM
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Check the search function, read some articles, try Google.
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Old Jan 4, 2010 | 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ettevroc 37
What is numbers matching mean and what are the numbers that match

JOIN THE N.C.R.S.................
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Old Jan 4, 2010 | 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by OzzyTom
If you're looking for an NCRS correct car, and it's certified, you will pay the price.
Nice description, but once again NCRS does NOT certify cars or make any determination if a piece is original to that car- including the engine.

The term numbers matching is almost meaningless as no two people agree on the definition. Does it mean the factory installed engine or not?
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Old Jan 5, 2010 | 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Ward
Nice description, but once again NCRS does NOT certify cars or make any determination if a piece is original to that car- including the engine.

The term numbers matching is almost meaningless as no two people agree on the definition. Does it mean the factory installed engine or not?
It does not mean the factory installed engine--necessarily, as you know, Mike.

It is the mission of the NCRS to rate and judge "originality/accuracy of a restoration", and there is absolutely no way that anyone can prove that a particular engine is original to a particular car, unless the car was never in the hands of a dealer or final owner and was bricked up in a wall as it rolled off the line at St. Louis. There have been multiple owners of most of these cars and what one guy may have done back in 1975 (or 2009), for instance, is virtually never going to be discovered now.

If NCRS judges an engine/transmission/rear-end, etc., and gives high marks for originality, deducting no points for poor restoration, inaccurate codes or dates or lack of originality, it does not necessarily mean that those components are original to that particular car, but the numbers do "match".

Again, many have made the assumption that if the numbers on the powertrain (including cast dates) jibe with rest of the car, that they must be original to the car, which just isn't necessarily so.

As I have written before, I don't really think it matters, because some original components which have been replaced with exact duplicates from the same time period, including the block-heaven forbid, can never be discovered unless your exact engine block or transmission with your VIN derivative happens to show up at your door--which is never going to happen.

It is another story altogether whether this practice is legitimate. Obviously, turning a 350/300 hp into an L88, and trying to pass it off as such should be unacceptable, but pulling all the correct components together to restore a L71 to its original condition is an admirable endeavor.
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Old Jan 5, 2010 | 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Ravine Speed
It does not mean the factory installed engine--necessarily, as you know, Mike.
Maybe it does to you and me, but that is not the universally understood and used definition of 'numbers matching'- which is my point.

Thankfully, the NCRS steers clear of the is term in all judging activities.
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Old Jan 5, 2010 | 01:49 PM
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