400 CID build
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,995
Likes: 1,680
From: Southeast TX
What would be the limit cam wise that you guys would be comfortable with using a flat tappet hydraulic cam? Would keeping the lift moderate and increasing duration help any? I hate to have to tie up a bunch of money in a "cruiser" type motor. It might see a track trip or two, but not that often. I have a supercharged veete in the garage for when I feel the need for speed. Do I need to lower my HP goals if I choose to stick with a hyd flat tappet?
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,444
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
either the crane 288 or it's smaller brother the 278 with 1.6 or 1.7 roller rockers. These were rated on run of the mill 350 ci. So you don't have to worry about a higher stall converter with 406 ci.
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=brows...tType=camshaft
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=brows...tType=camshaft
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
building a hyd flat tappet sbc 400 to 450hp? easy ...& you surely don't need 10.5:1 to get 450hp from a 406.
read these 2 old chp impersonator articles for baseline info
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...que/index.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...imp/index.html
fyi ... don't be too surprised if pbm pistons are actually Mahle 4032 but without grafal coating.
... & don't believe everything you read on internet ... including this very post I just wrote.
read these 2 old chp impersonator articles for baseline info
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...que/index.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...imp/index.html
fyi ... don't be too surprised if pbm pistons are actually Mahle 4032 but without grafal coating.
... & don't believe everything you read on internet ... including this very post I just wrote.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 121
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dart-...item2c52909702
This rotating assembly is under $2000 with 6" rods, 350 mains, internally balanced. Quality components. Much better kit than the Scat kit.
http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/produ...roup9448=21323
You will need freeze plugs and cam bearings to complete short block. This is around $4000 for a real nice complete short block that will take anything you want to throw at it.
Last edited by 63mako; Feb 8, 2010 at 05:58 PM.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,995
Likes: 1,680
From: Southeast TX
Current thinking:
Stock 2 bolt main block and stock cast crank. I took the donor motor apart today and it looks good. Standard bore. Crank throws had orange paint and rods were numbered on either side of where the caps separated. Normal? I've seen upgraded 5.7" rods supposedly good to 500+ hp for around 300 bucks. Hypereutectic pistons and rings for 300. I considered spending more money on the pistons and rods in case I want more power down the road, but after reading about the limitations of the stock 400 block, maybe the money is better spent elsewhere. I'm open to suggestion on the heads, but I'm assuming they're going to be about a grand. Hi rise dual plane intake and 750 carb. Still open on the cam choice. Would it be better to have a low lift cam and high ratio rocker arms or just have the cam gound for the lift and duration I'm after?
Again, this motor won't get more than about 4000 miles a year and limited track time. Appreciate all the help
Stock 2 bolt main block and stock cast crank. I took the donor motor apart today and it looks good. Standard bore. Crank throws had orange paint and rods were numbered on either side of where the caps separated. Normal? I've seen upgraded 5.7" rods supposedly good to 500+ hp for around 300 bucks. Hypereutectic pistons and rings for 300. I considered spending more money on the pistons and rods in case I want more power down the road, but after reading about the limitations of the stock 400 block, maybe the money is better spent elsewhere. I'm open to suggestion on the heads, but I'm assuming they're going to be about a grand. Hi rise dual plane intake and 750 carb. Still open on the cam choice. Would it be better to have a low lift cam and high ratio rocker arms or just have the cam gound for the lift and duration I'm after?
Again, this motor won't get more than about 4000 miles a year and limited track time. Appreciate all the help
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,654
Likes: 190
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
A new block still needs to be tested and checked. You are spending a few bucks on a buildup so I got mine magnufluxed just to be sure. Then the bores are undersized so they have to be bored and honed with torque plates to fit the pistons. I also had them debur the block. It has to be degreased again after you mock it up. I thought they also decked it too but I don't see that on my bill.
These are the things I did to brand new block and I believe they are necessary things to do when you are building a new motor. Cost was an extra $500 over the $2,400 initial cost of the block.
So not exactly plug and play right off the shipping pallet, you can skip some of it if you trust that everything is OK, my buddies shop does this to every motor, no point in building a motor if the block has a crack in it, new or not. You always have to bore / hone it to fit the pistons and everything should be checked IMHO, I don't say everything is OK just because it's a new block or heads
These are the things I did to brand new block and I believe they are necessary things to do when you are building a new motor. Cost was an extra $500 over the $2,400 initial cost of the block.
So not exactly plug and play right off the shipping pallet, you can skip some of it if you trust that everything is OK, my buddies shop does this to every motor, no point in building a motor if the block has a crack in it, new or not. You always have to bore / hone it to fit the pistons and everything should be checked IMHO, I don't say everything is OK just because it's a new block or heads
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,995
Likes: 1,680
From: Southeast TX
A new block still needs to be tested and checked. You are spending a few bucks on a buildup so I got mine magnufluxed just to be sure. Then the bores are undersized so they have to be bored and honed with torque plates to fit the pistons. I also had them debur the block. It has to be degreased again after you mock it up. I thought they also decked it too but I don't see that on my bill.
These are the things I did to brand new block and I believe they are necessary things to do when you are building a new motor. Cost was an extra $500 over the $2,400 initial cost of the block.
So not exactly plug and play right off the shipping pallet, you can skip some of it if you trust that everything is OK, my buddies shop does this to every motor, no point in building a motor if the block has a crack in it, new or not. You always have to bore / hone it to fit the pistons and everything should be checked IMHO, I don't say everything is OK just because it's a new block or heads
These are the things I did to brand new block and I believe they are necessary things to do when you are building a new motor. Cost was an extra $500 over the $2,400 initial cost of the block.
So not exactly plug and play right off the shipping pallet, you can skip some of it if you trust that everything is OK, my buddies shop does this to every motor, no point in building a motor if the block has a crack in it, new or not. You always have to bore / hone it to fit the pistons and everything should be checked IMHO, I don't say everything is OK just because it's a new block or heads
).
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Drifting
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 3
From: NORTHEAST
I don't know about the rotating assembly. The Dart SHP block has splayed mains. No machining usually needed except clean and hone bores. Add up machining shop costs for stripping down used block, removing freeze plugs and cam bearings, Hot tank, Boring, Splayed caps, Machining for splayed caps, Line bore and hone mains, deck block plus the extra cost of a retro roller. This has priority main oiling and is a better casting than a stock chevy. A bargain at $1500.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dart-...item2c52909702
This rotating assembly is under $2000 with 6" rods, 350 mains, internally balanced. Quality components. Much better kit than the Scat kit.
http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/produ...roup9448=21323
You will need freeze plugs and cam bearings to complete short block. This is around $4000 for a real nice complete short block that will take anything you want to throw at it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dart-...item2c52909702
This rotating assembly is under $2000 with 6" rods, 350 mains, internally balanced. Quality components. Much better kit than the Scat kit.
http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/produ...roup9448=21323
You will need freeze plugs and cam bearings to complete short block. This is around $4000 for a real nice complete short block that will take anything you want to throw at it.
The add is over on the racing junk
You can get a Callies rotator with Compstar crank rods and Mahle pistons and rings and rods and mains for 1800.00
There are some good prices on some good parts!!!
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 124
From: Lubbock TX
Scat makes some good 5.7 and 6.0 rods that are bushed or press fit and use ARP capscrews, should be able to handle just about what the block can, cost a good bit less at around $225. If you can afford forged pistons, I'd step up. They're a lot more forgiving of a bad tune or heavily loaded application than hypers.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,995
Likes: 1,680
From: Southeast TX
Procomp heads
These seem to be bargain priced compared to the other aluminum heads I've looked at. I did a search and all the info was 3+ years old. Are they a good option or better left alone?
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 121
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
It feels great until you realize what you got.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 435
Likes: 18
From: Florida
IMO if you have a 2 bolt 400 block just stud it with ARP,s dont waste your money on splaying a factory block. Those heads are a crap shoot, but you could accomplish the 450hp number with 500 ft/lbs torque numbers with a set of rebuilt vortec heads. This way you have efficient heads that wont exceed the block, the crank, or the induction system.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 124
From: Lubbock TX
My old man used to say that driving a Dodge truck was kinda like dating a fat girl. They're not all that bad, but you sure don't want your friends to see you with one!
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 124
From: Lubbock TX
I've torn down plenty of big and small blocks, many of 'em were getting the pan cracked off for the first time. MOST, if not all big blocks and MANY smallblocks had rods stamped.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,995
Likes: 1,680
From: Southeast TX
This stamping job looked like a machine did it. Numbers were perfect and all lined up (looks nothing like a hack like me would have done). Block is still at the machine shop. The guy doing the work is pretty thorough. He even decks brand new cylinder heads. He said my block was a "high nickel" block and one of the better 4.125 blocks to have. It had a little extra "meat" cast into the block where the cylinders came together. Should know today if the block is usable.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 228
Likes: 1
From: Warwick New York
I built my 406 last winter. drove it all summer. the motor runs great lots of power specially with the 6 speed behind it. I went with a Crower cam see specs below. I run two edlibrock 600s with afr 195s a little over 10 to 1 compression. This was the lesser choice of two cams but i wanted driveability. I have not had it on a dino yet but as you can see it is suppose to be around 460 horse.
#00470S 2400-5800 rpm 462hp @ 5800 rpm
110 - 232/240 .549"/.559"
#00470S 2400-5800 rpm 462hp @ 5800 rpm
110 - 232/240 .549"/.559"