C3 Tech/Performance V8 Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine, Basic Tech and Maintenance for the C3 Corvette
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

400 CID build

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Feb 11, 2010 | 10:10 AM
  #41  
old motorhead's Avatar
old motorhead
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,994
Likes: 1,677
From: Southeast TX
Default

Originally Posted by captl27
I built my 406 last winter. drove it all summer. the motor runs great lots of power specially with the 6 speed behind it. I went with a Crower cam see specs below. I run two edlibrock 600s with afr 195s a little over 10 to 1 compression. This was the lesser choice of two cams but i wanted driveability. I have not had it on a dino yet but as you can see it is suppose to be around 460 horse.

#00470S 2400-5800 rpm 462hp @ 5800 rpm
110 - 232/240 .549"/.559"
That's a lot more cam than I was considering. I don't think I can get away with that much cam with T350 and tight converter. Might have to ratchet down my power goals if it takes that much cam to get to 450.

EDIT: machine shop just called and said block was CHERRY. Everything checked out perfect. Guess I need to get the cam and top end picked out.

Last edited by old motorhead; Feb 11, 2010 at 10:17 AM.
Reply
Old Feb 11, 2010 | 01:17 PM
  #42  
captl27's Avatar
captl27
Instructor
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 228
Likes: 1
From: Warwick New York
Default

Good luck hope you get what you want or at least more then you need.
Reply
Old Feb 11, 2010 | 04:24 PM
  #43  
63mako's Avatar
63mako
Race Director
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 121
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Default

Originally Posted by old motorhead
That's a lot more cam than I was considering. I don't think I can get away with that much cam with T350 and tight converter. Might have to ratchet down my power goals if it takes that much cam to get to 450.

EDIT: machine shop just called and said block was CHERRY. Everything checked out perfect. Guess I need to get the cam and top end picked out.
Your original post called for 10.5 to 1 compression. The cam you are refering to as being "a lot more cam than I was considering" is too small for a 10.5 to 1 motor. Your DCR will be too high to run premium pump fuel even with aluminum heads. You will need a minimum of 236 duration @ .050 and aluminum heads to run that much compression. A 406 needs a bigger cam and will have a lower operating range than the info posted on the cam websites. Drop the actual operating range about 500 RPM on both the low side and high side compared to what the cam specs say. Vortec heads will limit your lift to under .470.
I would drop your compression to around 10 to 1 or just under, use a good flowing aluminum head with around a 200 CC port size and look at at least 224 duration @ .050 on the intake side with a 112 LSA to get the manners and power you seem to be looking for and still run pump fuel. Would still recommend a Hydraulic roller setup. Just too many failures with the flat tappets any more.
Reply
Old Feb 11, 2010 | 04:49 PM
  #44  
tt 383's Avatar
tt 383
Racer
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 435
Likes: 18
From: Florida
Default

Listen to 63mako about the cam. I only mentioned the vortecs for a cheap build that gets him the power he wants with proven parts. If you "build" a used set of vortecs, use new valves .100 longer and the bigger size(2.02/2.05 int and 1.60 exh) with good springs so you aren't limited to the lift, and machine work goes to making the heads flow better. Blend the valve job in and your done. If you wanted to put new liners in use the 8mm liners and appropriate 8mm valves/seals. This will also keep the head from "backing up" when you get into lifts over .500.
Reply
Old Feb 11, 2010 | 05:09 PM
  #45  
captl27's Avatar
captl27
Instructor
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 228
Likes: 1
From: Warwick New York
Default

I did a lot of research before I ordered my cam and still was not confident with ordering a cam so I went with crower there techs will do the calculations and tell you what they think will be best. Which came close to my numbers anyway. They also give you a couple to pick from. The guys in my son-in-laws Camaro forum have had good luck with crower and so far so have I. I don't race but I might, mostly street now but who knows.
Reply
Old Feb 11, 2010 | 05:55 PM
  #46  
old motorhead's Avatar
old motorhead
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,994
Likes: 1,677
From: Southeast TX
Default

Originally Posted by 63mako
Your original post called for 10.5 to 1 compression. The cam you are refering to as being "a lot more cam than I was considering" is too small for a 10.5 to 1 motor. Your DCR will be too high to run premium pump fuel even with aluminum heads. You will need a minimum of 236 duration @ .050 and aluminum heads to run that much compression. A 406 needs a bigger cam and will have a lower operating range than the info posted on the cam websites. Drop the actual operating range about 500 RPM on both the low side and high side compared to what the cam specs say. Vortec heads will limit your lift to under .470.
I would drop your compression to around 10 to 1 or just under, use a good flowing aluminum head with around a 200 CC port size and look at at least 224 duration @ .050 on the intake side with a 112 LSA to get the manners and power you seem to be looking for and still run pump fuel. Would still recommend a Hydraulic roller setup. Just too many failures with the flat tappets any more.
I'm just about set on a set of Trick Flow 195's. My builder actually uses the Procomp heads, but he completely goes through them before use. Charges about 1300+ for the ported heads with valve job and new guts. The Trick Flows are a couple hundred $'s less and he's good with their quality. Cam will be 224/.465 on a 114LSA. I'm going to use 1.6 rocker arms that will bump the duration up a bit and the lift to almost .500. Is 10.5 c/r still too much to run with this setup?
Reply
Old Feb 11, 2010 | 08:21 PM
  #47  
63mako's Avatar
63mako
Race Director
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 121
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Default

Originally Posted by old motorhead
I'm just about set on a set of Trick Flow 195's. My builder actually uses the Procomp heads, but he completely goes through them before use. Charges about 1300+ for the ported heads with valve job and new guts. The Trick Flows are a couple hundred $'s less and he's good with their quality. Cam will be 224/.465 on a 114LSA. I'm going to use 1.6 rocker arms that will bump the duration up a bit and the lift to almost .500. Is 10.5 c/r still too much to run with this setup?
The Trick Flow's are pretty decent. Your DCR will be too high drop compression to about 10 to 1 with 224 duration and 114 LSA

Last edited by 63mako; Feb 11, 2010 at 08:37 PM.
Reply
Old Feb 11, 2010 | 08:32 PM
  #48  
MotorHead's Avatar
MotorHead
Race Director
25 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,646
Likes: 189
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
Default

224 duration and .460" lift on a 406ci
Reply
Corvette Stories

The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts

story-0

2027 Corvette vs The World: Every Model vs Closest Competitor

 Joe Kucinski
story-1

10 Most Common Corvette Problems of the Last 20 Years!

 Joe Kucinski
story-2

5 MOST and 5 LEAST Popular Corvette Model Years in History!

 Joe Kucinski
story-3

2027 Corvette Buyer's Guide: Everything You Need to Know!

 Joe Kucinski
story-4

10 Things C8 Corvette Owners Hate (But Won't Tell You)

 Joe Kucinski
story-5

10 Best Corvettes Coming to Barrett-Jackson Palm Beach 2026!

 Brett Foote
story-6

Every Corvette Grand Sport Explained! (C2, C4, C6, C7, & C8)

 Joe Kucinski
story-7

Grand Sport & Grand Sport X Launch Alongside All-New 535hp LS6 V8!

 Michael S. Palmer
story-8

5 Reasons Bad Drivers Crash & 5 Ways to Avoid a Costly Mistake!

 Joe Kucinski
story-9

7 Bolt-On Upgrades From Extreme Online Store to Level Up Your C6 Corvette

 Pouria Savadkouei
Old Feb 11, 2010 | 08:52 PM
  #49  
63mako's Avatar
63mako
Race Director
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 121
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Default

Originally Posted by MotorHead
224 duration and .460" lift on a 406ci
I know, the cam will be done @ 5500 RPM Actual lift will be .496. 1,6 rockers will bump duration to about 227.There is only so much you can safely do with a flat tappet cam. A roller would be a lot better. The heads will give you 3 HP difference in potential going from .500 lift to .600 lift. They are done at .500 lift. Why go bigger? Scroll down to the Trick Flow Duttweiler 195 here to check.
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Chevy
Hey I would leave the compression @ 10.5, bump up the cam to match it and put a set of AFR 195's on it but he don't want a roller, is dead set that a 232 intake duration cam is too radical, wants to run a stock converter and is only wanting 450 HP.
For a more radical build he would also be looking at upgrading the TH350, new converter, a different rear gear and other expenses to make it all work right. The $ add up real fast as you and I both know. Double the cost and work real easy. Your 406 was streetable because of your 5 speed. Put it in front of a TH350 with stock converter and 308 gears and see how you like it. Same with my build. I have a 6 speed and 4.11. You can go with a more radical build if everything else matches it.
This motor will be a torque monster from off idle to 5000 RPM and have no driveability issues. Just what he asked for in the original post.

Last edited by 63mako; Feb 12, 2010 at 12:18 AM.
Reply
Old Feb 11, 2010 | 11:46 PM
  #50  
old motorhead's Avatar
old motorhead
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,994
Likes: 1,677
From: Southeast TX
Default

Originally Posted by 63mako
I know, the cam will be done @ 5500 RPM Actual lift will be .496. 1,6 rockers will bump duration to about 227.There is only so much you can safely do with a flat tappet cam. A roller would be a lot better. The heads will give you 3 HP difference in potential going from .500 lift to .600 lift. They are done at .500 lift. Why go bigger? Scroll down to the Trick Flow Duttweiler 195 here to check.
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Chevy
Hey I would leave the compression @ 10.5, bump up the cam to match it and put a set of AFR 195's on it but he don't want a roller, is dead set that a 232 intake duration cam is too radical, wants to run a stock converter and is only wanting 450 HP.
For a more radical build he would also be looking at upgrading the TH350, new converter, a different rear gear and other expenses to make it all work. The $ add up real fast as you and I both know. Double the cost and work real easy. Your 406 was streetable because of your 5 speed. Put it in front of a TH350 with stock converter and 308 gears and see how you like it.
This motor will be a torque monster from off idle to 5000 RPM and have no driveability issues. Just what he asked for in the original post.
I'm pretty comfortable with the combo. The guy doing the machine work says it should make the power I'm after and have near perfect manners. He talked me into a new cast crank (internally balanced) with forged rods and pistons. Wasn't much more money than redoing my crank and using hyper pistons. If I get a little crazy (I've seen me do it) and want to turn up the wick down the road, I think the foundation is there for a little more power. Maybe a 100 shot? I have a neighbor with a good running LS6 Chevelle that will probably call me out.
Reply
Old Feb 12, 2010 | 12:22 AM
  #51  
63mako's Avatar
63mako
Race Director
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 121
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Default

Originally Posted by old motorhead
I'm pretty comfortable with the combo. The guy doing the machine work says it should make the power I'm after and have near perfect manners. He talked me into a new cast crank (internally balanced) with forged rods and pistons. Wasn't much more money than redoing my crank and using hyper pistons. If I get a little crazy (I've seen me do it) and want to turn up the wick down the road, I think the foundation is there for a little more power. Maybe a 100 shot? I have a neighbor with a good running LS6 Chevelle that will probably call me out.
If you are going high rise dual plane intake I know the Performer RPM will fit. I don't know what else will. Internally balanced is real good. You will need that 100 shot at least to stay with the neighbor. If the crank was forged it would take anything you wanted to throw at it later. Everything else is good to go.

Last edited by 63mako; Feb 12, 2010 at 12:24 AM.
Reply
Old Feb 12, 2010 | 01:50 AM
  #52  
old motorhead's Avatar
old motorhead
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,994
Likes: 1,677
From: Southeast TX
Default

Originally Posted by 63mako
If you are going high rise dual plane intake I know the Performer RPM will fit. I don't know what else will. Internally balanced is real good. You will need that 100 shot at least to stay with the neighbor. If the crank was forged it would take anything you wanted to throw at it later. Everything else is good to go.
I'll use either the Edelbrock or Summit high rise. 750 cfm Holley or Summit carb with vacuum secondaries and elect. choke. The Summit carb looks like a Holley clone for a little less money. Probably go that way unless any of you has a problem with the Summit carb.
Reply
Old May 10, 2010 | 07:43 PM
  #53  
old motorhead's Avatar
old motorhead
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,994
Likes: 1,677
From: Southeast TX
Default

The motor is in the car....finally. Compression worked out to about 10.25. Need a spark plug recommendation. Might fire it up tomorrow.
Reply




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:04 AM.

story-0
2027 Corvette vs The World: Every Model vs Closest Competitor

Slideshow: 2027 Corvette lineup vs the world.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-20 17:58:41


VIEW MORE
story-1
10 Most Common Corvette Problems of the Last 20 Years!

Slideshow: 10 major Corvette problems from the last 20 years.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-14 16:37:05


VIEW MORE
story-2
5 MOST and 5 LEAST Popular Corvette Model Years in History!

Slideshow: 5 most and least popular Corvette model years.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-08 13:25:01


VIEW MORE
story-3
2027 Corvette Buyer's Guide: Everything You Need to Know!

Slideshow: 2027 Corvette buyer's guide

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-17 16:41:08


VIEW MORE
story-4
10 Things C8 Corvette Owners Hate (But Won't Tell You)

Slideshow: 10 things C8 Corvette owners hate, but won't tell you.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-01 18:36:07


VIEW MORE
story-5
10 Best Corvettes Coming to Barrett-Jackson Palm Beach 2026!

Slideshow: Should you add one of these incredible Corvettes to your garage?

By Brett Foote | 2026-04-01 18:14:05


VIEW MORE
story-6
Every Corvette Grand Sport Explained! (C2, C4, C6, C7, & C8)

Slideshow: Every Corvette Grand Sport explained

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-03-26 07:13:44


VIEW MORE
story-7
Grand Sport & Grand Sport X Launch Alongside All-New 535hp LS6 V8!

Slideshow: Breaking down the 2027 Grand Sport, Grand Sport X, Stingray, and LS6 V8.

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-03-26 13:48:45


VIEW MORE
story-8
5 Reasons Bad Drivers Crash & 5 Ways to Avoid a Costly Mistake!

Slideshow: 5 reasons bad drivers crash sports cars & 5 ways to avoid a costly shame!

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-03-25 16:32:55


VIEW MORE
story-9
7 Bolt-On Upgrades From Extreme Online Store to Level Up Your C6 Corvette

Slideshow: Check out these easy-to-install upgrades from Extreme Online Store that reshape the look and feel of the C6 Corvette.

By Pouria Savadkouei | 2026-03-23 17:00:27


VIEW MORE