New engine for a 77
02-12-2010, 04:18 PM
#1
Heel & Toe
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New engine for a 77
could you put a LS9 into a 77? It says that you can put this engine into a vehicle from 1977 or earlier but i dont know if that includes 1977.
http://www.gmhorsepower.com/LS9-ZR1-Corvette-Motor.php
http://www.gmhorsepower.com/LS9-ZR1-Corvette-Motor.php
Last edited by purenergy; 02-12-2010 at 04:26 PM.
Man that would be nice to have in a C3. If you have the $ to do it, then go right ahead, and keep us posted on the status
02-12-2010, 06:39 PM
#6
Race Director
Send me 15 grand and I build you a 427ci normally aspirated small block with more horsepower and torque and will run on 91 octane, you can put around town or take it to the track and turn 10's. You can drop it right in with no modifications.
And it will look purdy too, it is getting hard to keep up with GM in my basement though
And it will look purdy too, it is getting hard to keep up with GM in my basement though
Last edited by MotorHead; 02-12-2010 at 06:46 PM.
02-12-2010, 06:54 PM
#7
Instructor
could you put a LS9 into a 77? It says that you can put this engine into a vehicle from 1977 or earlier but i dont know if that includes 1977.
http://www.gmhorsepower.com/LS9-ZR1-Corvette-Motor.php
http://www.gmhorsepower.com/LS9-ZR1-Corvette-Motor.php
02-12-2010, 06:57 PM
#8
Race Director
So you can just drop into a C3 ? Or would you have to spend thousands more on modifications to make it fit, including but not limited to computer, tranny etc etc. ?
02-12-2010, 07:13 PM
#9
Instructor
Of course MotorHead, as you say, it would not be a drop in. Original transmission may not fit without some work. It needs an ECU and wiring harness, not to mention an EFI fuel pump. Oh and lets not forget about the radiator. LS engines are reverse flow for the coolant as are LT1 etc oh, and lets not forget a huge and very expensive intercooler heat exchanger. I agree with MotorHead that for the money you could build your own engine of comparable or more power whether with antique carburetor technology or EFI.
02-12-2010, 07:16 PM
#10
Race Director
I am saying you could LEGALLY put it in a 1977 in the US... well maybe not everywhere in the US But most states. The OP seemed to be concerned about the 1977 and earlier caveat in the JEGS add.
Of course MotorHead, as you say, it would not be a drop in. Original transmission may not fit without some work. It needs an ECU and wiring harness, not to mention an EFI fuel pump. Oh and lets not forget about the radiator. LS engines are reverse flow for the coolant as are LT1 etc oh, and lets not forget a huge and very expensive intercooler heat exchanger. I agree with MotorHead that for the money you could build your own engine of comparable or more power whether with antique carburetor technology or EFI.
Of course MotorHead, as you say, it would not be a drop in. Original transmission may not fit without some work. It needs an ECU and wiring harness, not to mention an EFI fuel pump. Oh and lets not forget about the radiator. LS engines are reverse flow for the coolant as are LT1 etc oh, and lets not forget a huge and very expensive intercooler heat exchanger. I agree with MotorHead that for the money you could build your own engine of comparable or more power whether with antique carburetor technology or EFI.
And what about purdy ?
02-12-2010, 07:25 PM
#12
Race Director
Was just looking at the cost, the modifications etc and your gonna be near 30 grand maybe more to install this motor. A better route would be a new GM motor called the LSX 454 carb, I believe you can bolt that in with less mods. Or the LS7 427ci with a carb to cut costs, the heads on those motors flow big numbers. 
If the OP is stuck on a S/C motor any of these can have a S/C added but that LS9 is still a cool motor, just going to be hard on the pocket book
If the OP is stuck on a S/C motor any of these can have a S/C added but that LS9 is still a cool motor, just going to be hard on the pocket book
02-13-2010, 12:22 AM
#13
What a fine engine LS9 is. Rest of the car would need to be something in class of Frankensport or higher, methinks.
02-13-2010, 02:14 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
You can forge an LS2, add LS3 heads, add Magnacharger TVS supercharger, and come out way ahead money wise. Probably way ahead power wise too. My Magnuson TVS blown LS3 has 672 rwhp. Way stronger than the LS9. I'm sure the LS9 is capable with similar cam and bolt ons as I'm using. Way more money though.
02-13-2010, 10:03 PM
#16
Race Director
I don't know it has never been measured on a dyno, I do know what power I built the motor to put out you can read that above.
I did measure my last motor which was a 406ci on an engine dyno 547HP and 510TQ which had less cubic inches and smaller heads and smaller cam so you can take it from there.
The big difference I see in 427ci N/A motor is fact that it will have over 500ft/lbs at 3800RPM not 250ft/lbs like the LS9 if I reading that graph correctly, I didn't notice that before, peak HP and torque is at over 6500RPM, it is much better to have big torque in the normal driving RPM's my 427ci would be well over 400ft/lbs at 2000RPM's.
427ci AFR227 Specs:
- World Motown 400ci small block, 350 mains with splayed billet caps,
- AFR 227 Eliminators with port matched Vic jr. intake by AFR
- T&D Shaft Rockers, 1.6 ratio, Manley .080" wall pusrods and
- Comp Cam small base circle Endurex solid roller lifters
- XR286R solid billet roller, small base circle lift .650" duration 248/254 @ .050"
- Callies DragonSlayer crank, 350 mains, 4 inch stroke
- Eagle stroker rods with ARP 2000 bolts
- Mahle pistons, with chromoly faced rings- 10.6:1cr
- ATI Race Super Dampner
- CVR billet timing cover
- CVR mini starter
- Cloyes timing set with encapsulated torrington bearing
- Melling HV oil pump
- Milodon 7 qt oil pan
- Edelbrock Victor water pump
- Hays lightweight ( 25lbs ) billet steel flywheel
- Center Force clutch
- MSD Digital E-Curve Pro Billet distributor
- MSD Super Conductor wires
- 825 Drag Race Demon carburetor
Here is the only chassis dyno I can find at the moment for my 406ci, I have dynoed every motor I have had in my Vette and they always are pretty close to what I expect. This one was stopped short as the A/f was too high but you can see it is putting out more torque at the rear wheels than the LS9 does at the flywheel at lower driving RPM's
Don't get caught up in peak numbers you want a flat torque curve for the street not peaky torque curve. You will also notice the dyno started ( WOT ) before 2000RPM and by 2200RPM it is hitting 360Ft/lbs at the rear wheels, which means the motor is running quite well, most won't start untill 2500-3000 RPM's because they bog down
This is rear wheel HP for my previous 406ci stopped early because A/F was too high
I did measure my last motor which was a 406ci on an engine dyno 547HP and 510TQ which had less cubic inches and smaller heads and smaller cam so you can take it from there.
The big difference I see in 427ci N/A motor is fact that it will have over 500ft/lbs at 3800RPM not 250ft/lbs like the LS9 if I reading that graph correctly, I didn't notice that before, peak HP and torque is at over 6500RPM, it is much better to have big torque in the normal driving RPM's my 427ci would be well over 400ft/lbs at 2000RPM's.
427ci AFR227 Specs:
- World Motown 400ci small block, 350 mains with splayed billet caps,
- AFR 227 Eliminators with port matched Vic jr. intake by AFR
- T&D Shaft Rockers, 1.6 ratio, Manley .080" wall pusrods and
- Comp Cam small base circle Endurex solid roller lifters
- XR286R solid billet roller, small base circle lift .650" duration 248/254 @ .050"
- Callies DragonSlayer crank, 350 mains, 4 inch stroke
- Eagle stroker rods with ARP 2000 bolts
- Mahle pistons, with chromoly faced rings- 10.6:1cr
- ATI Race Super Dampner
- CVR billet timing cover
- CVR mini starter
- Cloyes timing set with encapsulated torrington bearing
- Melling HV oil pump
- Milodon 7 qt oil pan
- Edelbrock Victor water pump
- Hays lightweight ( 25lbs ) billet steel flywheel
- Center Force clutch
- MSD Digital E-Curve Pro Billet distributor
- MSD Super Conductor wires
- 825 Drag Race Demon carburetor
Here is the only chassis dyno I can find at the moment for my 406ci, I have dynoed every motor I have had in my Vette and they always are pretty close to what I expect. This one was stopped short as the A/f was too high but you can see it is putting out more torque at the rear wheels than the LS9 does at the flywheel at lower driving RPM's
Don't get caught up in peak numbers you want a flat torque curve for the street not peaky torque curve. You will also notice the dyno started ( WOT ) before 2000RPM and by 2200RPM it is hitting 360Ft/lbs at the rear wheels, which means the motor is running quite well, most won't start untill 2500-3000 RPM's because they bog down
This is rear wheel HP for my previous 406ci stopped early because A/F was too high
Last edited by MotorHead; 02-14-2010 at 12:02 AM.
02-13-2010, 10:05 PM
#17
Heel & Toe
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do you have a recommendation for a new transmission?
Would this transmission work?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TCI-271600P
it dosent matter if it is auto or manual
Would this transmission work?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TCI-271600P
it dosent matter if it is auto or manual
Last edited by purenergy; 02-13-2010 at 11:20 PM.
02-13-2010, 11:10 PM
#18
Race Director
If you are going to put any power in your C3 I have and would recommend the direct fit Tremec TKO 600 5 speed from Keisler they are a forum supporting vendor, look in the sidebar or do a search for Keisler that is the transmission I have in mine.
Last edited by MotorHead; 02-14-2010 at 12:58 AM.
02-14-2010, 12:57 AM
#19
Le Mans Master
I don't know it has never been measured on a dyno, I do know what power I built the motor to put out you can read that above.
I did measure my last motor which was a 406ci on an engine dyno 547HP and 510TQ which had less cubic inches and smaller heads and smaller cam so you can take it from there.
The big difference I see in 427ci N/A motor is fact that it will have over 500ft/lbs at 3800RPM not 250ft/lbs like the LS9 if I reading that graph correctly, I didn't notice that before, peak HP and torque is at over 6500RPM, it is much better to have big torque in the normal driving RPM's my 427ci would be well over 400ft/lbs at 2000RPM's.
427ci AFR227 Specs:
- World Motown 400ci small block, 350 mains with splayed billet caps,
- AFR 227 Eliminators with port matched Vic jr. intake by AFR
- T&D Shaft Rockers, 1.6 ratio, Manley .080" wall pusrods and
- Comp Cam small base circle Endurex solid roller lifters
- XR286R solid billet roller, small base circle lift .650" duration 248/254 @ .050"
- Callies DragonSlayer crank, 350 mains, 4 inch stroke
- Eagle stroker rods with ARP 2000 bolts
- Mahle pistons, with chromoly faced rings- 10.6:1cr
- ATI Race Super Dampner
- CVR billet timing cover
- CVR mini starter
- Cloyes timing set with encapsulated torrington bearing
- Melling HV oil pump
- Milodon 7 qt oil pan
- Edelbrock Victor water pump
- Hays lightweight ( 25lbs ) billet steel flywheel
- Center Force clutch
- MSD Digital E-Curve Pro Billet distributor
- MSD Super Conductor wires
- 825 Drag Race Demon carburetor
Here is the only chassis dyno I can find at the moment for my 406ci, I have dynoed every motor I have had in my Vette and they always are pretty close to what I expect. This one was stopped short as the A/f was too high but you can see it is putting out more torque at the rear wheels than the LS9 does at the flywheel at lower driving RPM's
Don't get caught up in peak numbers you want a flat torque curve for the street not peaky torque curve. You will also notice the dyno started ( WOT ) before 2000RPM and by 2200RPM it is hitting 360Ft/lbs at the rear wheels, which means the motor is running quite well, most won't start untill 2500-3000 RPM's because they bog down
This is rear wheel HP for my previous 406ci stopped early because A/F was too high
I did measure my last motor which was a 406ci on an engine dyno 547HP and 510TQ which had less cubic inches and smaller heads and smaller cam so you can take it from there.
The big difference I see in 427ci N/A motor is fact that it will have over 500ft/lbs at 3800RPM not 250ft/lbs like the LS9 if I reading that graph correctly, I didn't notice that before, peak HP and torque is at over 6500RPM, it is much better to have big torque in the normal driving RPM's my 427ci would be well over 400ft/lbs at 2000RPM's.
427ci AFR227 Specs:
- World Motown 400ci small block, 350 mains with splayed billet caps,
- AFR 227 Eliminators with port matched Vic jr. intake by AFR
- T&D Shaft Rockers, 1.6 ratio, Manley .080" wall pusrods and
- Comp Cam small base circle Endurex solid roller lifters
- XR286R solid billet roller, small base circle lift .650" duration 248/254 @ .050"
- Callies DragonSlayer crank, 350 mains, 4 inch stroke
- Eagle stroker rods with ARP 2000 bolts
- Mahle pistons, with chromoly faced rings- 10.6:1cr
- ATI Race Super Dampner
- CVR billet timing cover
- CVR mini starter
- Cloyes timing set with encapsulated torrington bearing
- Melling HV oil pump
- Milodon 7 qt oil pan
- Edelbrock Victor water pump
- Hays lightweight ( 25lbs ) billet steel flywheel
- Center Force clutch
- MSD Digital E-Curve Pro Billet distributor
- MSD Super Conductor wires
- 825 Drag Race Demon carburetor
Here is the only chassis dyno I can find at the moment for my 406ci, I have dynoed every motor I have had in my Vette and they always are pretty close to what I expect. This one was stopped short as the A/f was too high but you can see it is putting out more torque at the rear wheels than the LS9 does at the flywheel at lower driving RPM's
Don't get caught up in peak numbers you want a flat torque curve for the street not peaky torque curve. You will also notice the dyno started ( WOT ) before 2000RPM and by 2200RPM it is hitting 360Ft/lbs at the rear wheels, which means the motor is running quite well, most won't start untill 2500-3000 RPM's because they bog down
This is rear wheel HP for my previous 406ci stopped early because A/F was too high
02-14-2010, 01:38 AM
#20
Race Director
That LS9 graph is way off. Stock, they're over 400ft lbs at 2000 and + 500 at 3000. It doesn't take much to get them over 600 at 3000rpm. TVS Roots style blowers make the boost quick and hold it until you let off. You're not going to get any where near their low end torque with a naturally aspirated motor.....unless it has a whole bunch more cubic inches to work with.
Let's just drop the whole thing
