I'm checking out the New AFR 210 Eliminator Racing Cylinder Head. I have few questions for people who are fimilar with these.

Will they work with my 1 7/8" Hooker headers and sidepipes? Exhaust port is raised .250. angled plugs might be a problem?

They come with 2.08" valves and was wondering what kind of piston i would need for theses?


I'm pricing out doing a 383-406ci with AFR 210cc heads and something like XR286R comp solid roller cam. 248/254 .614/.622 110/106. victor jr intake. 750cfm speed demon. 10.5-11.1 Compression 93oct pump gas.

I'm looking for 550hp-500'lbs and something to rev to 6500-7000rpm.

 

I just put a set of these on my 383 motor. I am running a solid roller 242/248 custom grind to work with my FI. I am right at 11.1 compression. I have not run it yet but I have no piston to valve problem running at .600 lift. Most of the good pistons will clear these valves. Watch out for the springs though. They are real heavy springs. I changed them out on my heads. I am hoping for 500+ flywheel HP. Should be running shortly but with all this snow around there is no rush.

I am running Hooker super comps and the angle plugs actually fit better than the old straight ones from my AFR 190 heads.

 

Did you get the comp porting or standard 210 cnc porting? I think you'll be over your goal of 500hp. didn't you make around 400rwhp with your old 190s and solid flat tappet. With 210s and solid roller you should make more torque and hp.



I'm gonna be on budget of $5000-5500. So I might end up going with solid flat tappet instead of roller, something like a xs290s. So Far I have a 350 bare block, new Roller Rockers 1.6, and 750cfm speed demon, new oil pump. So I have a long way to go and some planning. New Dart 4.125" block was on my mind. But that might be over budget as well. IF i went with the Solid roller and AFR heads I figured on $2,500 for top end, that only leaves me 2,500 for short block.


I want to put down at least 400rwhp, have nice torque, Rough idle sound, and fast reving small block. My buddy just got a job at shop with chasis dyno. His boss said i could get dyno time for really cheap this summer if I get new motor in and wanna get it dailed in.

 

I did a engine dyno and chassis dyno on my 406ci and got IIRC 21 or 23% loss, yours may vary but I would use 20% minimum and if you have auto you could be near 25%. These are not C5-C6's where the losses are minimal in 13-15% range from what I gather.

If your C3 makes 400RWHP you know your making at least 500HP at the crank

 

FYI, those AFR heads have valves sourced from India, I would see if you could get bare CNC heads. The backsides of the valve heads on my 195cc AFR "Comp" ported eliminators weren't even swirl polished, complete GARBAGE. I replaced them with USA Manley valves.

 

Damn I never knew that. Comp ported heads are like 2grand and they come with crappy valves? I'm not sure if they sell them in bare castings or not. I see them listed only as assembled from AFR site.

 

I got the standard porting on mine and yes I had a solid flat tappet 383 with 190s on mine and put down 409 RWHP through the 5 speed. I ran the XS 290 cam. The cam is going into my buddys 383 this spring when I redo the motor on his car.

 

According to this website the AFR 195 competition ported flow 300 / 225 @ .600 lift. The AFR 210 Competition ported flow 282 / 215 @ .600 lift. I know this sounds crazy but that is the flow charts posted. Better flow out of a smaller port at your max lift is a better choice. Scoll down on this link and check the flow numbers.
http://www.adperformance.com/index.p...ath=68_100_112
This shows the 195 @ .600 lift flows more than the 210 @ .700 lift. Don't ask me why!

 

AFRs sight seems to be down but this ebay vendor pulls the figures from AFRs sight. Scroll down to see the flow numbers on the 210s.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AFR-S...Q5fAccessories

Here is the flow from the 195s

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AFR-S...Q5fAccessories

Looks like the competition 195s flow just about what the standard 210s flow

 

You can order them straight from AFR thru your local speed shop bare or you can get any part for them. There is ( or used to be ) a price list of every part they sell on website.

One brain surgeon there wanted to charge me more for the heads without the springs than with the springs, I guess he added up the price of the individual parts and they came out to more than the price of of a complete set. What happened was I waited almost 6 months for the heads and when they were ready to ship they said they forgot to order the springs I had specified for my cam. I wanted the heads and didn't want to wait any longer so I wanted them shipped without the springs.

He told this to my buddy over the phone who owns the machine shop to tell the customer ( me ) and I was right there. This is family site so I'll leave to your imagination what I said to him but I got the price of the springs taken off

 

I was SO DISSAPOINTED in my AFR CNC heads that we ordered valves from Manley performance (we had to send them one intake and one exhaust for making custom 8mm valves.) This added on another $400 to the cost of the heads, if you buy stuff and "bolt it on" you would never see this stuff, but, I'm a strange guy, I take stuff apart and inspect what I'm paying for and let me tell you, I'm NOT IMPRESSED with AFR hardware! Then again, I'm not impressed with anything made in India lets see Tony Mamo answer this post, here is my picture of the backside of an AFR intake valve with the chattered tooling marks that INCREASE the chances of valve failure DRAMATICALLY!

 

Man i thought afr heads were all american made. This info is very disapointing to me.

 

That makes more sense to me.

 

Heads are still cast and machined in the USA (I think) but hardware is JUNK! from India. If you just take stuff out of the box and "bolt it on" you're their prime TARGET customer.

I run my motors hard in Drag Racing and Autocross and want them to last for several years, the valves I inspected have some SEROIUS issues with quality and reliability. I think DART has some good products witht heir new Platinum series heads but, AFR is without a doubt the "Marketing leader" in cylinder head technology (BS spin on product.)

My "Comp" series of 195cc CNC heads wouldn't quite make the numbers their advertising said they would but, were within 5% of their quoted figures and way better than my previous set of heads. AFR will offer to look at the heads if you call them out on the flow figure but, they won't reimburse you for UPS expenses and for the amount of $$$ it would take to ship them back, it wouldn't be worth while to spend the $$$.

I think the heads are well done. I'm just a little POD that they use JUNK components in them. I would only order heads bare from them in the future (I guess that should net about an $80-90 credit in their mind) but, I would want at least a $300 discount considering the Labor costs in California, parts must only total around $120-160 cost at best for them.

 

Afr is suppose to be the best head out there,hense the amount of money you will pay for it and you should pay that if you are getting the quality .I think its a big ripoff if this is true.I for one, is one of the people that probably got ripped of,i have a set on my lightning truck.How can you ask for that much money and you are getting cheap parts inside it

 

I'm not disagreeing with you but you woud think you would hear of many more failures if they are as bad as you say.

I did completly take the heads apart and put on new springs and set the spring height. I looked at the valves and they looked pretty good but I'm not doubting the valves are made overseas.

 

My buddy inspects and corrects everything, he even polished my brand new Callies crank, now that's getting ****.

My AFR227's had to have the guides opened up a bit according to him, he didn't like them that tight but to AFR's credit that is their spec to have them that tight. He was also impressed with the heads, he couldn't find much if anything wrong with them. We will see how much power they make in the spring, I am happy with them so far but I don't like the oil return path

They were also right on the numbers for flow and they port matched a Vic Jr with only 3 % loss when bolted to the heads on a flow bench, they are good heads

 

I have the new AFR 210cc Eliminators (competition ported) on my 427 sb, and I'm well satisfied with them. This engine dynoed 628hp/585tq, so their flow claims seem to be true to yield this hp. And, to agree with others, the angle plugs fit even better with my Hooker Super Comps than the AFR 195's did. The .250 raise is not noticeable.....even with power steering.

 

Guys,

We started doing business with this company because they were very honorable and had a great reputation out in the field with another big name performance cylinder head manufacturer (as well as Caterpillar and other household names) . Trust me....we walked very slowly and did our homework. The bottom line is the valves they produced for us were extremely reliable out in the field (how many threads do you see about problems with our valves breaking....bad news travels fast on the Internet).

Job number one of utmost importance in a valve supplier is to provide us with a quality valve that doesn't break and they did that admirably. All of our valves from that supplier were one piece 21-4N stainless....the same high quality material used in any of the aftermarket leading suppliers "race" valves (not their street series). The problem we had occasionally with this supplier was consistency and we also had a small batch come thru with soft tips a few years back. We stepped up to the plate and R&R'ed any customer's heads that experienced abnormal wear on the tips, and even went as far as providing gaskets and reimbursing them with a $600 check to cover their labor. This is the level of customer service AFR is known to provide.

Unfortunately we didn't get the phone call or an opportunity to make things right here or we certainly would have. Fact of the matter is we stopped using that supplier shortly after the valve tip incident which was back in November of 2007, and have switched to a vendor in Argentina who has been providing us with the same durability and a more consistent fit and finish. REV, Ferrea, and other big name valves are also sourced in Argentina.

We do not install cheap parts in our cylinder heads....period. How could we offer a lifetime warranty on our castings and two years on all parts if that were the case....check our website for more info there.

I offer the OP the same thing I would offer any of you with new AFR valves that you are unhappy about....send them to us and we will pay the freight and swap them with new valves from our current supplier at no cost to you.

Regarding flow numbers, I could easily point to numerous threads showing our product flowed more than we advertise and unfortunately there are many variables when flow testing (the largest being the fixtures and the type of bench used), but the bottom line is that is another area where we stand behind our product and offer the end user a guarantee (all flow figures to be within 2% of our advertised figures). If in fact there is an issue we will address it with the heads in question and/or replace the head(s) at our discretion.....then reimburse the customer his freight costs as well as pay for the return freight. If the heads flow within our 2% guidelines then the customer is only responsible for freight both ways.....we do not charge anything additional for the time invested to "handle" and qualify the product.

And guys....at the risk of stating the obvious, please contact us first and give us the opportunity to help.

Thanks,
Tony Mamo
R&D / Product Design Mgr.
661-705-8508

 

I for one am still pissed,i have inferior parts in my heads and i trusted afr and paid for premium heads with premium money ,and now you say if im not satisfied just tear down my engine and send the heads or parts back and you will make it right,all this because you guys went with a CHEAPER parts maker so you could increase your profits that much more Well, im sorry too ,real sorry