but for the time being, I will have to pass up on it.
Need help - ignition problem?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,551
Likes: 10
From: Kulpmont PA
Need help - ignition problem?
My project this morning was flushing the coolant and replacing the coolant hoses. The car (427 390) ran fine. After getting the hoses changed and coolant refilled I fired it back up again to check for leaks, top off, etc.
As the car started I heard a strange noise -- it almost sounded like newspapers tearing. I wasnt sure where it came from, or even if it came from the car. The car started and idled normally - no noises - nothing abnormal. With the car idling, I went to check for leaks on the hoses I had put on. After about 2 or 3 minutes, the car just shut off ..... no coughing or sputtering.
I restarted the car and it ran for about 10 seconds and back shut down.
There is definitely gas to the carb, so i decided to check for spark. What I have is a 30 year old inductive timing light - that I probably havent used for 20 years. There wasnt any sign of spark on that when i cranked the engine. Just to be sure the light still works, I did test it on the family car -- and it worked fine.
My guess is that something went south in the distributor / shaft -- but I wouldnt expect it to fail and not stop right away. All thoughts appreciated.
As the car started I heard a strange noise -- it almost sounded like newspapers tearing. I wasnt sure where it came from, or even if it came from the car. The car started and idled normally - no noises - nothing abnormal. With the car idling, I went to check for leaks on the hoses I had put on. After about 2 or 3 minutes, the car just shut off ..... no coughing or sputtering.
I restarted the car and it ran for about 10 seconds and back shut down.
There is definitely gas to the carb, so i decided to check for spark. What I have is a 30 year old inductive timing light - that I probably havent used for 20 years. There wasnt any sign of spark on that when i cranked the engine. Just to be sure the light still works, I did test it on the family car -- and it worked fine.
My guess is that something went south in the distributor / shaft -- but I wouldnt expect it to fail and not stop right away. All thoughts appreciated.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,551
Likes: 10
From: Kulpmont PA
No water around the ignition system at all. It's not the transistorized ignition.
I didnt get much time to look at it yesterday afternoon -- daughters birthday party. On the bright side, I guess it's good that this happened yesterday morning -- or I'd have been out for a ride with my daughter along when it shut down.
While I was looking at the ignition, I did a quick resistance check on the coil. I had a couple of ohms between the + and -, and it was somewhere in the 12k range between the + or - and the main lead. I dont know what the actual readings should be, but that seemed to be in the right neighborhood.
I didnt get much time to look at it yesterday afternoon -- daughters birthday party. On the bright side, I guess it's good that this happened yesterday morning -- or I'd have been out for a ride with my daughter along when it shut down.
While I was looking at the ignition, I did a quick resistance check on the coil. I had a couple of ohms between the + and -, and it was somewhere in the 12k range between the + or - and the main lead. I dont know what the actual readings should be, but that seemed to be in the right neighborhood.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,794
Likes: 430
From: Aarhus, Denmark
My project this morning was flushing the coolant and replacing the coolant hoses. The car (427 390) ran fine. After getting the hoses changed and coolant refilled I fired it back up again to check for leaks, top off, etc.
As the car started I heard a strange noise -- it almost sounded like newspapers tearing. I wasnt sure where it came from, or even if it came from the car. The car started and idled normally - no noises - nothing abnormal. With the car idling, I went to check for leaks on the hoses I had put on. After about 2 or 3 minutes, the car just shut off ..... no coughing or sputtering.
I restarted the car and it ran for about 10 seconds and back shut down.
There is definitely gas to the carb, so i decided to check for spark. What I have is a 30 year old inductive timing light - that I probably havent used for 20 years. There wasnt any sign of spark on that when i cranked the engine. Just to be sure the light still works, I did test it on the family car -- and it worked fine.
My guess is that something went south in the distributor / shaft -- but I wouldnt expect it to fail and not stop right away. All thoughts appreciated.
As the car started I heard a strange noise -- it almost sounded like newspapers tearing. I wasnt sure where it came from, or even if it came from the car. The car started and idled normally - no noises - nothing abnormal. With the car idling, I went to check for leaks on the hoses I had put on. After about 2 or 3 minutes, the car just shut off ..... no coughing or sputtering.
I restarted the car and it ran for about 10 seconds and back shut down.
There is definitely gas to the carb, so i decided to check for spark. What I have is a 30 year old inductive timing light - that I probably havent used for 20 years. There wasnt any sign of spark on that when i cranked the engine. Just to be sure the light still works, I did test it on the family car -- and it worked fine.
My guess is that something went south in the distributor / shaft -- but I wouldnt expect it to fail and not stop right away. All thoughts appreciated.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,794
Likes: 430
From: Aarhus, Denmark
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,116
From: Crossville TN
The resistance on the coil is in the expected range...and it is not OPEN on primary or secondary side, so it is likely OK. My suspicion is that the coolant change had nothing to do with your ignition problem; just a strange coincidence. Double-check that you got the fan hub mounted correctly and fully engaged (not cocked) and that belts are on right and not too tight. Your problem is likely in the distributor. If you have HEI, suspect the ignition module; if points, suspect the points, condenser, or a wiring problem.
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,551
Likes: 10
From: Kulpmont PA
I agree - I think the timing of this with the coolant change is just coincidental.
The distributor cap looked almost new -- no obvious problems. The rotor look new as well - the contact area is pretty rough and it will need to be replaced - but I dont think it would cause a complete shutdown.
Points and all else look fine.
There is some backlash in the distributor shaft, but nothing excessive.
More info. -- Last night I put the distributor back together and gave it one last try - but the battery was drained. I put my battery tender that I use for my motorcycle on it - to charge it overnight. This morning, the chargers lights were blinking to indicate a battery or connection problem. I pulled the battery and tried charging again, and it is taking a charge with no problems out of the car.
The distributor cap looked almost new -- no obvious problems. The rotor look new as well - the contact area is pretty rough and it will need to be replaced - but I dont think it would cause a complete shutdown.
Points and all else look fine.
There is some backlash in the distributor shaft, but nothing excessive.
More info. -- Last night I put the distributor back together and gave it one last try - but the battery was drained. I put my battery tender that I use for my motorcycle on it - to charge it overnight. This morning, the chargers lights were blinking to indicate a battery or connection problem. I pulled the battery and tried charging again, and it is taking a charge with no problems out of the car.
Last edited by roy69; Mar 21, 2010 at 10:26 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,079
Likes: 314
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
Just FYI, the points dizzy grounds itself thru the clamp and bolt to the manifold. Check that out. My ignition shield cover was causing the coil output wire to short out. When the cover was on, no spark. With the cover off, everything was fine. Make sure you are getting voltage to the coil, all the time. Should be 9V out of the harness, with the key on. Try another coil, just for laughs and grins.
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 176
Likes: 1
I was having a problem like this. It turn out to be the coil. When the coil was cool it would work fine. When the coil got hot from the motor it would cause the coil to go out of its resistance range. Test this with a heat gun and ohm meter. Connected the ohm meter then heated the coil with the heat gun. As it got hotter the ohms dropped to 0000, when it cooled the reading went back into range.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,551
Likes: 10
From: Kulpmont PA
Well, I learned a couple of things today, not least of which is I am a knucklehead. When I got home from work, I put the fully charged battery back in the car. The battery cable connections didnt seem right (lesson #1 - stop when things dont seem right - which I failed). Since I knew I didnt pay close attention when I took the battery out --- after all, they're all connected the same way arent they --- I went ahead and connected the red cable to positive and black to negative as I have on every other vehicle I've ever owned. Lesson #2 - the RED battery wire on my Corvette goes straight to ground - which I learned after the fact. Lesson #3 - fusible links (I presume that's what it was) put out a sizable cloud of smoke when they go (which I learned simultaneously with lesson #2).
I'll have to figure out what all has been damaged, and take care of that before getting back to the ignition problem. Right now it's time for a beverage.
Is it standard on Corvettes for the red wire to be the ground connection?
I'll have to figure out what all has been damaged, and take care of that before getting back to the ignition problem. Right now it's time for a beverage.
Is it standard on Corvettes for the red wire to be the ground connection?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,551
Likes: 10
From: Kulpmont PA
These are shots of my 'Negative' battery cable.
Unfortunately, I had not actually traced the battery cables before installing the battery.
Tonight I will start figuring out a test plan to figure out what has been damaged. One of the manuals I have shows a fusible link in a line from the starter to the horn relay. I believe this may be what went up in smoke - but I dont see that on the actual electrical diagram. Can anybody tell me if that fusible link actually exists? (427-390, no AC).
Unfortunately, I had not actually traced the battery cables before installing the battery.
Tonight I will start figuring out a test plan to figure out what has been damaged. One of the manuals I have shows a fusible link in a line from the starter to the horn relay. I believe this may be what went up in smoke - but I dont see that on the actual electrical diagram. Can anybody tell me if that fusible link actually exists? (427-390, no AC).
Last edited by roy69; Mar 23, 2010 at 06:34 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,092
Likes: 5
From: Fayetteville Arkansas
well that really sucks... hopefully it's not too bad and you just fried the starter solenoid and some fusible links. Be sure to check the alternator and if the wiring smoked that much you might be better calling Lectric Limited and getting a whole new engine wiring harness. It's not too bad of an install and would be a lot easier than unraveling all the tape and grime that's in your present harness if it is all burnt and crispy. Hope it all turns out well!
Sully
Sully
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,551
Likes: 10
From: Kulpmont PA
I'm thinking in the long run, I may be better off replacing the wiring harness and be done with it. Thanks for the recommendation on a supplier. I've already looked in a number of catalogs, but have no idea on what the differences between them is (other than price). I'm more interested in good quality than low price.
Last edited by roy69; Mar 23, 2010 at 06:44 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,092
Likes: 5
From: Fayetteville Arkansas
Look at Willcoxcorvette.com I am sure they sell Lectric Limited stuff. Or you can get it directly from Lectric. They are quality like Dewitt's Radiators... top notch best of the best. Every connector and wire was exact perfect. Direct plug-n-play.
hth,
Sully
hth,
Sully