shim new starter?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,369
Likes: 12
From: wichita kansas
shim new starter?
getting ready to put new starter on my 427/390 coupe. the starter comes with a couple of shims, and instructions say something REAL DETAILED, like "shim as needed"
i have put lots of chevy starters on engines over the years, and have noticed the shims before, but have never used them. should i be concerned about it, and HOW would i determine if i needed them?
thanks guys, Rick
i have put lots of chevy starters on engines over the years, and have noticed the shims before, but have never used them. should i be concerned about it, and HOW would i determine if i needed them?
thanks guys, Rick
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,142
Likes: 54
From: Taylor Michigan
Shims are normally not used. Basic reason is that it moves the starter away from the ring gear. One measurement is to use a paper clip as a measuring device between the starter drive and ring gear so its not to close.......
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
Even more important than the shims is that you have the correct bolts to mount the starter. The 'correct' bolts have knurling on the shanks which actually enlarges the diameter a bit so that the starter can't 'walk around' because of excess clearance between the holes and bolt shanks. It positions the starter better with the ring gear. You need the shims if the Bendix gear on the starter interferes with the ring gear when actuated.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,045
Likes: 4
From: Yorktown VA
NCM Sinkhole Donor
My new started makes a noise right after it starts. Didn't know it needed shims. What's the procedure for shimming it correctly? What size paper clip do you use and how do you get the starter to engage to measure the gap? What should the gap be and where do I shim if there is an incorrect gap? I have a PowerMaster 9426 Ultra Torque Starter (one of the small starters) and a 153t plate. Thanks.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 40,442
Likes: 793
From: Redondo Beach, California
My new started makes a noise right after it starts. Didn't know it needed shims. What's the procedure for shimming it correctly? What size paper clip do you use and how do you get the starter to engage to measure the gap? What should the gap be and where do I shim if there is an incorrect gap? I have a PowerMaster 9426 Ultra Torque Starter (one of the small starters) and a 153t plate. Thanks.
Also, with the starter gear retracted, it should miss the ring gear (obvious) and when extended, it should cover at least 75 to 100% of the ring gear. (75% is my guess, maybe someone has more expertise than me.)
About the paper clip method. I think you're going to have to have the bellhouse off for this to work. Otherwise you'll have to do it by "ear!"
My GMPP ministarter on my ZZ4 fit fine with no shims needed.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,050
Likes: 124
From: Wichita KS
My new started makes a noise right after it starts. Didn't know it needed shims. What's the procedure for shimming it correctly? What size paper clip do you use and how do you get the starter to engage to measure the gap? What should the gap be and where do I shim if there is an incorrect gap? I have a PowerMaster 9426 Ultra Torque Starter (one of the small starters) and a 153t plate. Thanks.
DISCONNECT THE BATTERY
Mesh the starter pinion with the flywheel. You want the tooth on the pinion gear to be CENTERED between two of the flywheel gear teeth. You insert the clearance guage between the TIP of the pinion gear and the flywheel. (IF YOU MEASURE THE CLEARANCE AT THE SIDE OF THE PINION TOOTH YOUR MEASUREMENT WILL BE INACCURATE.)
You can fabricate a clearance guage from a piece of 0.025 inch wire (try a common paper clip).
The tech bulletin I have (1980) specifies a Delco starter gap of 0.025 to 0.060 inches.
If the starter is too close, install shims between the nose of the starter and the block.
If the starter is too far from the flywheel slip the shim between the OUTBOARD part of the starter nose and the engine block. Shimming the outboard pad of the drive-end will tilt the entire starter closer to the flywheel.
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Instructor
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 111
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From: lafayette indiana
to buzzards vette alot of the high tourqe starters make a noise when engine starts and they disengage are u sure thats not what your hearing(they sound diff from a standard starter)remove starter and look for signs of abnormal wear on starter gear and flywheel if everything looks ok.i would not add any shims
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
To check for proper engagement of ring gear and Bendix drive gear, disconnect battery, then remove the jumper lug running from the positive (+) connection on the solenoid to the starter. Make sure that is insulated well so that the starter cannot get 12 vdc to it.
Now you can hook the battery back up and when you turn the ignition, the solenoid will engage the drive gear but the starter will not turn. With the inspection plate taken off, you can measure with a small shim, feeler gage or paper clip wire to see if there is clearance between the gears (it should not be in tight mesh).
You only want to leave the ignition turned ON for 10 seconds [or so] at a time so that the solenoid coil doesn't get too hot....it is not designed for continuous use. If you find that the drive gear has no running clearance with the ring gear, use the shims. Otherwise, leave it alone.
Don't forget to disconnect the battery again before you reinstall the jumper from solenoid to starter.
Now you can hook the battery back up and when you turn the ignition, the solenoid will engage the drive gear but the starter will not turn. With the inspection plate taken off, you can measure with a small shim, feeler gage or paper clip wire to see if there is clearance between the gears (it should not be in tight mesh).
You only want to leave the ignition turned ON for 10 seconds [or so] at a time so that the solenoid coil doesn't get too hot....it is not designed for continuous use. If you find that the drive gear has no running clearance with the ring gear, use the shims. Otherwise, leave it alone.
Don't forget to disconnect the battery again before you reinstall the jumper from solenoid to starter.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,399
Likes: 247
From: San Jose CA
My new started makes a noise right after it starts. Didn't know it needed shims. What's the procedure for shimming it correctly? What size paper clip do you use and how do you get the starter to engage to measure the gap? What should the gap be and where do I shim if there is an incorrect gap? I have a PowerMaster 9426 Ultra Torque Starter (one of the small starters) and a 153t plate. Thanks.
Turned out it was the Ford/remote solenoid that was on my car leaving too much juice on the main solenoid after the car had already started. The Ford solenoids taper down slowly instead of cutting power, so the switch part of the factory solenoid kept on juicin'. Removed the ford solenoid and turned my car back to stock, no more issue. (In other words, it turns out it was the "American idiots" that worked on the car 10 years ago that were the problem...)
