About 3000 miles ago I had the Transmission rebuilt on my 69 because of a massive leak involving the front seal. About 3 years later same thing. Leak started out slow then became uncontrolable. Went back to the tranny shop only to find out the guy had closed after 50 years in business. So if figure I,ll same some cash and do in my self. I got the trans out but I can't get the converter off completely . Im able to remove it about half way and thats it . then its stuck. I also noticed that when its fully seated on the pump there is some up and down movement. Im wondering if thats normal ? And how do I get this thing off? Im really not a trans guy. I have some experience with them but not a whole lot. Thanks for any help or ideas .

 

Sounds like the stator support is binding on the torque converter stator splines. Lay the tranny over on its back and take a couple of pry bars and pop the converter off the trans, it should not take much effort.

Once you get the torque convertor off check the stator support splines for wear and burrs. You may get by with just slightly grinding off any burrs or you may need to replace the stator support. Unfortunately the torque converter stator splines cannot be checked without rebuilding the converter.

Stormin

 

Thanks for the response , I give this a try . What about that slight up and down movement when the converter is seated on the pump? TX.

 

That's your source of the leak. Odds are the front pump bushing that the convertor rides in is worn.

 

Eldo,
Once the converter is fully seated into the front pump there should not be any "up and down" movement. Like TimAT stated the hub of the converter rides on a bushing inside the front pump. The clearance between the converter hub and bushing should be about .003 inch.

Did the previous rebuilder replace the torque converter? If they did not the hub and the stator splines may be excessively worn. It is common in the transmission rebuilding business to flush a torque converter that mechanically functions.

Stormin

 

Sorry I havent been able to respond for a few days I was ouy of town . The converter was replaced by the rebuilder but to tell you the truth it looks like some cheap repaint job. If the converter has up and down movement in the seated position . can I asssume its no good ? so if I replace the converster and the seal I should be good ? TX ELDO GUY .

 

Eldo,
Frankly most torque converters that transmission shops install are simple flushed, have the pump hub sanded to remove the seal groove and poorly painted, like your unit.

If this was my vehicle I would purchase a new converter, remove the front pump, disassemble the front pump and replace the front pump bushing and front seal. I would also suggest you have a competent transmission shop do this unless you have some special tools and experience in rebuilding automatic transmissions as removal of the front pump can unseat the front drum from the gear train.

You may be able to find a tranny shop that can replace the pump bushing and seal without disassembling the transmission however you cannot check the bushing to hub clearance when you do this.

Hope this helps.

Stormin

 

Even with a new converter and a new bushing, there will be a small amount of up/down side/side movement in the converter. Pump bushing is only about 1/2"-5/8" wide. The stablility comes in when the converter is supported by the bushing, the crankshaft and bolted to the flex plate.

 

Thanks guy's for hanging with me on this one. I guess ill try and remove the converter and have a look , but sounds like Stormin's advice is the best seening as this is the second time this has happened in about 3k miles . I bet those guys didnt even rebuild the pump ! Any Idea about a cost for something like this . I dont need another rebuild . The trans is out and I would get my own converter from a place like summit . Quess this looks like more cash.

 

Well I got the converter off! well most of It. When I gave it a good yank the converter came off, but the nose broke right off its still on the shaft and stuck. It almost looks like the nose was welded to much and caused some distortion. They probably forced the thing on. Ill look at it tommrow in the day light but this looks like a big problem. Any ideas on how to get this off. Ive never seen this happen before . Eldo Guy .

 

IMO, unless you're planning to do the transmission work yourself, I'd find a reputable trans. shop (not an easy task). There's a possibility you need a pump stator, pump gears, pump bushing and maybe even a pump body. If metal particals have contaminated your trans., a total disassembly, inspection and cleaning are in order. I'd PM TimAT, he also used to or still does rebuild transmissions and can offer an opinion. Dacco or TCI have good torque converters and TCI even sells the entire transmission, pretested with a spec. sheet.
Good luck
Jim

 

Thanks for the Ideas. I like your comment about finding a Good shop. I thought I had one with a 50 year history of being the place to go. Now he's closed ! Should have done the TCI thing from the start. Has any one ever seen the nose come off of the converter before. I live in the northern Chicago suburbs. Any one know of a "good shop" in my area who's not a con artist.?

 

Eldo,
I assume what you mean is the front pump drive hub is still stuck in the front pump. I agree with Jim that you are at least likely going to need to remove the front pump from the transmission; as I stated earlier this does take some special tools and experience.

I would also say that you will probably need a front pump assembly. A reputable tranny shop should be able to sell you one.

The broken hub could have been because of a poor weld job however are the two alignment dowels installed in the rear of the engine block? If the alignment dowels are missing undue stress can be placed on the pump drive hub.

Good luck and keep your chin up.
Stormin

 

I've never seen that happen and Stormin123 makes a good point since a missing dowel/dowels would explain that and maybe even your previous failure. With an overhaul manual, a few home-made tools and spotless work area, you can do the transmission yourself. It's not that hard if you follow the procedures carefully. If I can do it, you can do it.

 

Ya , the dowels are there . If they weren't the install would be real hell. Upon closer examination it looks like the area were the nose was welded to the converter body was pretty thin . the break was real clean all around . The nose looks like it took a little to much heat during the weld and shows distortion around the shaft preventing it from sliding off. Like I said they probably forced it on. I was thinking of trying a little micro surgery with a dremmel to try and remove the nose . Once the front section is off the balance of the nose will come off. The only good news is that the splines on the shaft look good . Right now Im looking for advice and ideas from you guys before I make the final decision. Thanks for the help and ideas so far.

 

Eldo,
If you are going to do this yourself here are some steps to follow.

1.) Stand the tranny straight up without allowing the output shaft to hit the floor
2.) Don't worry about removing the hub from the front pump you can do that after you remove the front pump.
3.) Remove the front pump bolts.
4.) Thread two slide hammers into the threaded holes in the front pump housing. You can make home made slide hammers from threaded rod and some old bar bell weights.
5.) Hold the input shaft down while slide hammering the pump from the tranny housing. If you don't hold the input shaft down you risk pulling the front clutch drum from the intermediate clutches.
6.) Once the front pump is removed you can disassemble the pump by removing the bolts on the backside of the pump. This will separate the two halves of the pump and expose the two pump gears. You should be able to drive out the broken hub at this time. You might be better served by taking the entire front pump assembly to a reputable transmission shop to have them check the front pump assembly. Before the front pump is reassembled make sure to check the fit of the front pump bushing to converter hub. When you reassemble the front pump the two halves need to be aligned. You can make an alignment tool by putting a bunch of worm style hose clamps together and tightening them around the pump halves.
7.) To reinstall the front pump back inside of the transmission lubricate the front drum sealing rings with petroleum jelly. Tack the front pump gasket to the case with the petroleum jelly. Lubricate the front pump to case "O" ring with jelly too.
8.) Obtain 2 bolts that are the same thread as the front pump holddown bolts and about 2" longer. Remove the head of the bolts and slot them. Install them across from each other in the case.
9.) Slowly lower the pump into the case, you are working against the front pump "O" ring and front drum sealing rings. The pump may not fully seat with just gravity, lightly tappiing the front pump with with a rubber hammer should seat the pump. You will know when you have the pump seated.
10.) Reinstall the front pump holddown bolts and torque.
11). Set the tranny back on the pan and reinstall the torque converter. It will take some rotating, pushing and up and down movement to get the converter back into the tranny. You are basically lining up three pieces: torque converter to input shaft, torque converter stator to stator support and torque converter hub to front pump gears. The gears are the last and hardest piece to align. You have to turn the converter while moving it up and down. You will know you have the converter installed properly when you cannot insert a finger between the converter and the front pump. You can also put a straight edge across the front of the transmission. There should be 1/2" to 3/4" of an inch between the straight edge and the converter mounting flanges.

Keep in mind you can eliminate all of these steps by taking the entire transmission to a reputable transmission repair shop and have them do the work for you.

Good Luck,

Stormin

 

Thanks !!! Stormin for the long post and the detailed instructions ! Sounds like you may have had a little tranny experience some where !!!! Like you said I could just haul the whole thing over to a tranny shop and avoid all the pain and agony but then I wouldn't learn anything ! Im inclined to do this one myself especially with the you can't miss instructions . Any idea about a torque converter stall speed now that I need a new one ! I got a ZZ4 with the stock rear end . 3.03 or 3.07 something like that I dont remember exactly. I like to get on it hard occassionally but also drive on highway trips to. Are there any od demensions for the pump bushing I should be concerned about ? As usual many Thanks .

 

Well I got that nasty hub off the shaft . Now I need a new converter! Summit recommended a Hughes GM 25 Street master Is got a 2200to 2500 stall speed. I got a zz4 with the stock rear end 3.08 I believe. I dont want to any drivability problems around town and trips, but I always enjoy a good launch. Any recommendations or ideas TX. Eldoguy.

 

Eldo,
Glad to hear about your successful extraction of the converter hub. 2200 RPM stall is plenty for your engine and rear combo, might actually be a little high for your gears. You may lose some MPG and build some extra trans temp at low RPMs, should not be a big problem. After all we don't drive our cars for MPGs!

My tranny rebuilding career began at AAMCO in 1979. I have not done much lately as I am no longer a professional automotive technician.

Feel free to contact me if you need any further assistance.

Stormin

 

Tx. stormin for all the help and support I hope to work on this this weekend if I get all my parts . I dont really care about the MPG'S but I dont want to have any drivability problems !!! I have a trans cooler that should help with the temp issue! Ill let ya know how it turns. out