Badly bent pushrods
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,132
Likes: 14
From: A town SC
To all that responded, Im sorry that i took you alls time over such a stupid mistake on my part. I pulled the timing cover to discover that the cam was infact advanced. Ive built 30 plus engines in my time and im only 32 years old.The timing set i used was kinda misleading with the timing marks. Not to lay it all on the timing set, I guess I shoulda looked closer.This is the first time this has happened to me after all the engines built previously.This forum however is a great tool to have and I thank all whom took time to question some of the steps i took on this thing to try to figure out just what the hell was going on. As i said this is only the second BB for me and as my luck would have it, what hung me was the same procedure for BB and SB alike. O well guess ill fix it and consider it a lesson to pay more attention in the future.Again thanks to all.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,132
Likes: 14
From: A town SC
Pro
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 542
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From: Bloomfield Hills MI
I feel your pain with a multi-keyway timing chain setup. Me and a buddy must have argued for a day and drank a case of beer about what was right and should dots be together or both upright. But, fussing, testing and some reality checking - we got it right.
Good luck on your rebuild - at least you know that you will never do this mistake again.
Good luck on your rebuild - at least you know that you will never do this mistake again.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
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From: Corsicana, Tx
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Well..that makes sense now then. I just couldn't see how that cam could get things near those pistons without being way advanced.
Good news is you didn't hurt anything real dramatic. Yes,,,you whacked some intake valves and bent some pushrods. Likely the guides are all still fine and in fact the valve job really shouldn't be hurt any.
Get some new valves and pushrods and stick it back together. You'll be running in no time!
This might be a good time to actually degree the cam in. You've got it all apart and no better time to learn than right now!
Is this the timing set with a suare, a circle and a diamond for marks? If so...you can look closely at the keyways. If using the keyway with the rounded top you use the circle, if using the keyway with the pointed top...you use the diamond....and the square goes for the square cut keyway. They all have something similar to that. But even with all that, there can be tolerance stack up with crank/cam keyways/dowels and with gear sets. Some cams are ground already advanced 4*..so you don't need to add more.
Good luck!
JIM
Good news is you didn't hurt anything real dramatic. Yes,,,you whacked some intake valves and bent some pushrods. Likely the guides are all still fine and in fact the valve job really shouldn't be hurt any.
Get some new valves and pushrods and stick it back together. You'll be running in no time!
This might be a good time to actually degree the cam in. You've got it all apart and no better time to learn than right now!
Is this the timing set with a suare, a circle and a diamond for marks? If so...you can look closely at the keyways. If using the keyway with the rounded top you use the circle, if using the keyway with the pointed top...you use the diamond....and the square goes for the square cut keyway. They all have something similar to that. But even with all that, there can be tolerance stack up with crank/cam keyways/dowels and with gear sets. Some cams are ground already advanced 4*..so you don't need to add more.
Good luck!
JIM
Last edited by 427Hotrod; Jul 11, 2010 at 11:38 PM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,132
Likes: 14
From: A town SC
427, I was so pissed at that damn timing chain I pulled it off and chunked it in the trash. Purchased another with much clearer markings,As far as degreeing i must have read your mind. I had a 20'' wheel made a couple of years ago, Its now set up and ready to be degreed in once i get off today. I hope to to that and on my way home pick some valves up and lapping compound. Maybe by eleven or so tonight it will at least be sitting in the car, ready to start tomorrow.
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,132
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From: A town SC
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,877
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From: Doha
St. Jude Donor '08
I had exactly the same issue when I built my engine, the edelbrock timing sprocket was not clear and they stamped the marks on the wrong position, thankfully I degreed my cam at that time and discovered the problem before anything goes wrong. Now I degree EVERY camshaft I install no matter how small/mild it is.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,132
Likes: 14
From: A town SC
UPDATE, degreed cam, hundred thirty thosandths valve to piston clearance.Didnt even measure exhaust, its wide open. Cams straight up didnt have to move it any , got 4 degrees built in. Got her running, and man it sounds good. cant move it though, no calipers or brake rotors. This will be next! Any one got slotted rear rotors for sale? or O ringed calipers sitting collecting dust in there shop? Thanks all, corvette forum is the da shet!!
Will post video as soon as i figure out how, who wants to hear a rat run with no muffs???
This will be next! Any one got slotted rear rotors for sale? or O ringed calipers sitting collecting dust in there shop? Thanks all, corvette forum is the da shet!!Will post video as soon as i figure out how, who wants to hear a rat run with no muffs???
Last edited by forvicjr; Jul 13, 2010 at 08:47 PM. Reason: Add
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
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From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
You are not the first. I was involved in a hot rod small block build. when we were adjusting the roller rocker lashes after a few we could not turn the motor over.
small blocks have bigger valve cuts for the intakes. The center cylinders have two exhausts valves together. The local speed shop that balanced the motor mounted the pistons with the spriral locks like a big block piston arrangement. We just gapped the rings and installed them 1-8 without seeing the error. Some buddy said maybe it's just tight
and why not bump the starter to set the next rocker.
It bent the intake valves on band new AFR heads.
Very sorry about your like experience
small blocks have bigger valve cuts for the intakes. The center cylinders have two exhausts valves together. The local speed shop that balanced the motor mounted the pistons with the spriral locks like a big block piston arrangement. We just gapped the rings and installed them 1-8 without seeing the error. Some buddy said maybe it's just tight
and why not bump the starter to set the next rocker.It bent the intake valves on band new AFR heads.
Very sorry about your like experience
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,609
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From: Massapequa Park NY
UPDATE, degreed cam, hundred thirty thosandths valve to piston clearance.Didnt even measure exhaust, its wide open. Cams straight up didnt have to move it any , got 4 degrees built in. Got her running, and man it sounds good. cant move it though, no calipers or brake rotors. This will be next! Any one got slotted rear rotors for sale? or O ringed calipers sitting collecting dust in there shop? Thanks all, corvette forum is the da shet!!
Will post video as soon as i figure out how, who wants to hear a rat run with no muffs???
This will be next! Any one got slotted rear rotors for sale? or O ringed calipers sitting collecting dust in there shop? Thanks all, corvette forum is the da shet!!Will post video as soon as i figure out how, who wants to hear a rat run with no muffs???
Jim
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 11,094
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From: Sierra Foothills CA
UPDATE, degreed cam, hundred thirty thosandths valve to piston clearance.Didnt even measure exhaust, its wide open. Cams straight up didnt have to move it any , got 4 degrees built in. Got her running, and man it sounds good. cant move it though, no calipers or brake rotors. This will be next! Any one got slotted rear rotors for sale? or O ringed calipers sitting collecting dust in there shop? Thanks all, corvette forum is the da shet!!
Will post video as soon as i figure out how, who wants to hear a rat run with no muffs???
This will be next! Any one got slotted rear rotors for sale? or O ringed calipers sitting collecting dust in there shop? Thanks all, corvette forum is the da shet!!Will post video as soon as i figure out how, who wants to hear a rat run with no muffs???
As for the vid- hell yea! I'm always in for hearing an unmuffled rat. 
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
The engine never fired,never. I did rol the motor by hand several times BUT the lifters werent pumped up tight with oil ,so when i turned it the valves hit but was just colapsing the lifter. The motor being tight camaflaged the interferance with the valves. This is why i didnt catch this sooner. Wish i did, so far im seeing about 600.00 in costs to get it back in the car. All this happened when i was getting ready to drop the distributor. Bumping engine over with starter to find #1.
Anyway when building a motor you always degree the cam, 99% of the time it is right on the money and sometimes you figure you just wasted an hour degreeing it but it will catch problems like you had.
I hope you have many miles of enjoyable cruising
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,711
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From: San Antonio TX
It would have been inconsequential either way. Lining them up with the cam dot down and the crank dot up gives you the same thing as crank up and cam up, cam down and crank down, or cam up and crank down. The dots will find these orientations in two crankshaft revolutions anyway. It's just easier to align them when they are closer together with the crank up and cam down. And this orientation is the only one that gives you TDC on the ignition, which could save you some time depending on what you're doing.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: St Louis MO
Crank up and cam down (or up) works, but crank down will never work!
Race Director
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From: Corsicana, Tx
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When the dots are lined up together...thats TDC compression on #6....#1 is in overlap.
JIM
JIM
