Well, I just got back from the engine shop today that's doing the machine work on my engine. Basically, I brought in the block, crank and heads to be done, and so far here's the bad news.

Boil & mag block $90.00
Cross hone cylinders $64.00
Cam Bearings $40.00
File fit new piston rings $100.00
Turn crank mains .010 $117.00

complete head rebuild $672.00 :eek:
Head rebuild includes boil & mag, new valves, bronze guides, positive seals, hardened seats (exhaust only), 3 angle valve job on intakes, and mill the piston side and intake side of head (they are warped).

The rebuilder wants to deck the block because he says there's about a .003 warp in it, but I can't bring myself to let him do it. He said he'd "try" not to mill the original numbers off, but "try" just doesn't sit well with me. I'd be forced to fire bomb the place if he "accidentally" missed. Fortunately, the cylinders themselves weren't so far out of round that a nice ring file-fitting won't mostly cure. But the heads.... I can't believe how much the head work is going to cost, but that's the "Works" treatment. They should be bullet proof for a good long time....

What started out as a simple timing chain replacement has quickly snowballed into a VERY large sum of money. And none of this includes main / journal bearings, cam, lifters, pushrods, timing chain, and gaskets (or the already completed Muncie rebuld).

I just had to vent a little. I feel better now...

Bill.

 

Ya gotta pay to play....as I quickly found out :(. In all honesty that price he quoted you on the heads doesn't seem all that bad (considering the work you are having done). I know you probably would have liked to pay a little less but the import question is are you getting quality machine work? If so then it is money well-spent. Good luck. :cheers:

 

question: why is he replacing all the valves? valves are expensive and not normally need replacing. You can usually get away with refacing them during the valve seat grinding process. Maybe milling the heads will take care of most of the warp condition and the block may not need to be decked? ask your builder if you can get away without decking the block? using a good quality head gasket, you may not notice the slight block warp? :smash:

 

Hey Bill, the vettes are work in progress money pits no matter where you turn. I have a 73 454". I have researched several quotes for the works. Labor and machine work seems to run about $1200-1500. Parts are running around $1500 unless you go the roller valve train route then add $300-400. So a total rebuild is over $3000. The only savings were me doing the tear down and buildup, and that was worth $400. Needless to say for now, a good tune, a little degrease and orange paint don't seem too bad.

 

I've already told the machine shop that I don't feel comfortable with them deckig the block, and he said more than most likely, that'd be fine. I didn't have any noticeable leaks around my head gaskets before, so milling the heads should take care of most of the problem.

Apparently, several of the valve stems have been worn thin and that's why the valves need replacement. I would think new guides could be fit to my valves, but what do I know about engine rebuilding? They are 2.02 heads, though.

But, I couldn't believe the exhaust seats when I saw them. They are completely pitted. I guess there really is a reason for using lead additive.

Anyhow, it's only money, right??

 

I can feel your pain bro! :crazy: Yes it's only money, and these vette's are worth every penny you put into them. I got my engine parts back from the machine shop about 2 weeks ago and I am glad I put the extra $'s into it. Have you thought about having it balanced?

 

Prices sound pretty reasonable for quality machine work.
I would definitely have the rotating assembly balanced.

 

Curious, why bronze guides?? Why not new steel guides, which should last longer than Bronze, which is a softer metal.... I always thought bronze was used in racing / performance applications, where the engine is torn down and rebuilt fairly frequently. I guess you really do pay a price when you want to keep the engine original, because you're at the price of a good set of new after market steel heads which will out flow/perform those old technology factory heads.

 

It'll all be worth it in the end and decking the block isn't necessary....
The rebuild for the 'heads' seem a bit high but valves aren't cheap so
maybe that's where a chunk of money is....
As I recall, valves should be around $12-$14 at the most and if you look
maybe you can get 'em for $11 ea. if you buy a set. What's his price and
are you supplying them or is he ???
Everything else $$$ wise seems fair - though it adds up - I feel your pain. :(

 

John- I thought bronze valve guides were the norm, so I didn't question it. I'll discuss it with the builder, though, and see what he thinks of steel guides.

Verskel- Actually, the valves are $8.61 a piece ($137 for all 16). The majority of the rest of the money is going into boring & installing the hardened seats, and the 3 angle valve job on the intakes ($125 and $140 respectively). Then, it's $112 to bore & install valve guides, $60 for surface milling, and the rest is miscellaneous parts (seals, locks, clean & magnaflux).

Now as far as balancing is concerned, how is that done? I hadn't considered it since I'm reusing my original pistons, connecting rods and crank (should be fun keeping 11:1 compreession). Is that something that's done with the pistons on the crank, or is each piston just milled on the back so they all weight the same? In the interest of saving money, I was going to assemble the engine myself, so I'd have to take it back to the rebuilder if balancing needs to be done after assembly. Is it really something that's necessary?

Thanks for the input.

Bill.

 

Balancing is usually done if you are buying new parts, but if you are going with your old pistons, con rods, con bolts etc... I don't know if it would be necessary or not. When the machinist balanced mine he had to have most of the rotating assembly, pressure plate, pistons, con rods/bolts, flywheel, harmonic balancer, crank, etc... I don't think that he bolts the pistons to the crank, but he will weight match them and the rods.

 

If the shop wants to mill the block and you don't want them to, then how do you expect to keep them from doing it? I ask because I have seen my machine shop and they have so many blocks going through there I wonder how they keep track of them. When I took in a 66 327, I explicately told them not to mill the block under any circumstance. I would be happy with .003 out of tolerance. Perhaps you need to "babysit" you block before the unit goes to the machinist.
Gary

 

Gary-

I know it won't be decked because the machine shop is in house. This guy does everything in house except the crank work. The owner of the machine shop also has a very nice '66 Vette, so he knows plenty about the cars. And the majority of his work is rebuilding deisel engines. So, mine is one of 2 or 3 car engines he's currently working on. I've been to the shop so many times now the guy knows me and shows me the progress. He knows exactly where my block & heads are and what's been done. I'm pretty sure it won't be a problem...

 

Quote: "I'm reusing my original pistons, connecting rods and crank (should be fun keeping 11:1 compreession). "

I'm curious why you'd keep old pistons to use on your factory iron heads, seems like too much compression to run on pump gas and you'll have to use additive to keep engine from pinging, or you'll have to retard the timing so far that it'll negatively impact performance. Since you're this far, why not change pistons and go with something that will get you 9.5 to 1 compression ratio to eliminate this 'problem'?? PS balancing is probably a good idea, especially if you plan to turn some serious, 6000+ RPMs.

 

John- I'm keeping the original pistons because I don't want to buy new flat top 4.000 pistons now (get me closer to 10:1) only to have to replace them down the road with 4.030 pistons. My whole motivation here is to keep as much original iron on the block as possible, to make the block last longer. I'll save the .030 over bore for when the cyliders are more out of round than they already are. Right now, my cylinders have bored themselves about .002 to .004 over. When I actually need to have the block punched, then I'll buy the flat top pistons. I'm already over $1,200 in maching alone, and I don't know how much more I'll be able to convince the wife that this is all necessary.

Besides that, I've been running pump gas with the 11:1 compression for 2 years now and have never had a problem with pinging. Apparently, I've been having much more problems with not using the lead additive, but other than that, I run 8° initial advance with no pinging. I'm actually a little worried that milling the heads down .005 will reduce my head capacity and increase my compression a little. So, maybe I'll induce my own pinging problems. But, if I have to dump in a gallon of toluene per tank of gas, I guess I can live with that....

Bill

 

If it makes you feel any better I paid $2600.00 CDN for my heads, they got the bare castings and did a number on them. Bronze valve guides, 5 angle competition valve job and better spring, valves etc. That includes hardened push rods and intake and exhaust gaskets.

 

bronze guides WILL last longer than steel guides. this is because bronze is more porous and will hold oil much better than steel. if you used steel guides you're valves would wear fairly rapidly.

 

After seeing those prices I'm glad that I am here in Oklahoma. I just recently had an old set of power pac heads done, All new guides, hardened exhaust seats, vatting and 3 angle valve job. Cost me $120 and I thought THAT was high!

 

Bill,
I feel your pain, I just dumped $3000 plus into rebuilding my engine. I had just about everything done, including decking the block. To be honest, I paid another $300 to have the numbers stamped back in by a guy with GM stamps. Somebody with a Corvette Black Book would find plenty of other stuff wrong with the car before the stamping issue ever came to light. However, my best advice is to spend the money now. There were a few places I didn't want to spend the money, and I ended up spending more money later when I had to redo things, buy more gaskets, etc. Not to mention, and this is BIG, just about everything I had to redo had to be done with the engine in the car; much harder. Unless you really enjoy pulling the engine, I would recommend doing it all at once

FYI...I paid under $400 for a set of cast pistons (10.25/1 CR) and $450 for block machining (that included cam bearings, bore, hone, mag, and freeze plugs).

I know the dilemma, good luck with your decision.

 

Bill:
It appears, since you're keeping old pistons & saving bore iron, that you do drive the car. If so, your's might be an excellent candidate for a crate motor or have your machinist rebuild another motor and run it ... warehouse your current motor.