I have an '80 with a ZZ3 crate motor, Twisted Wedge heads, headers and a Stage II Quadrajet. I'm wondering if you guys can answer a few questions before I waste half the national debt and expend what's left of my patience:
1) On a scale of 1-10 (10 being worst) how big of a PITA is this unit to install and tune? (for someone qualified, not me).
2) Will this unit add enough power to my engine to make it worth my while?
3) Anything else I should know before considering this unit?
Thanks!

 

I'm going with a Commander 950 installation in a month or two. A great place to get your questions answered is on Chevytalk.com in the EFI section. It's moderated by Doug Flynn, who is an Engineer at Holley who works with the Commander 950 a lot. He is extremely knowledgable, in Holley and other EFI systems.

It is not really a power adder except for the fact that it is a tunnel ram style intake without the low rpm downsides of a single plane high rise style intake. The big selling points are tuneability (via laptop), gas mileage, throttle response, cold weather starts. It's one of those things, like an overdrive transmission, that, if you try to put it's value into $$$ by working out formulas with savings in gas, it will never pay for itself. Hard to beat a well tuned carb for economics, or power.

If the idea of sitting back with a laptop and programming your spark and fuel curves sounds like fun to you then you may want to consider it. It seems like a great deal, competing with Edelbrocks system (which needs chips to be "tuned"), and it's significantly cheaper than DFI (which is better). But for a highly tunable, powerful low cost EFI system it really looks like the cat's pajamas. Especially the Stealth Ram intake, which I think is absolutely gorgous.



Rob



[Modified by robzr, 2:55 PM 4/5/2002]

 

MWILLET

That is sweet!

What did that run you and does it work with a MSD Pro-Billet dist?

 

Sorry, that questions was for robzr

 

That is a stolen picture, that is not mine. You can order the kit (comes with intake, computer, injectors, even a fuel pump) for $2200 regular or $2700 polished from Summit. I canceled my order to raise money for a 434 which I may own in a day or two. After I recoup some of the money then I'll order it again. There is a 3-4 week waiting list for the Stealth Ram systems. Beautiful though isn't it! The manifold flows over 300 cfm per runner which should allow it to be good for up to around 600 horsepower naturally aspirated. Fully programmable with a laptop (Holley has the .pdf manual on their website), and for $250 you can get the "race software" which does internal data logging (I don't think NHRA allows for data logging with a laptop), has nitrous controls, lets you use a narrow band o2 sensor like a wide band (set target ratio) and has some other cool features. Not as many features as DFI 7 or FAST, but it's over $1000 cheaper. And it looks SO DAMN COOL. :D

Rob



[Modified by robzr, 4:37 PM 4/5/2002]

 

Quote:
(Will this unit add enough power to my engine to make it worth my while?
3) Anything else I should know before considering this unit?"

In my opinion a carb still would be a better financially and total power output deal but my opinion does not go far most times.

What are you going to do about a hood? Because that's a bit too tall a set up for a C3

 

The intake is 10.0 inches from bottom to top. I had no hood clearance issues in my '76 L-48 (stock hood) with a RPM intake (5") a Demon Carb (3.5-4"?) and a 3" 1 1/4" drop base cleaner (1 3/4") and I had a good inch to spare. Even if my math is wrong, I'll drive aroudn without a hood until I get aroudn to carving a hole in my hood :) A good excuse to learn fiberglass work, right? My hood needs new paint anyways.

Rob


[Modified by robzr, 5:32 PM 4/5/2002]

 

I have the commander 950 on my 71. Go to the webpage in my sig and I have a writeup of the install.

 

Markus, I looked over your site and it's obvious that your project turned out well. Being financially pragmatic (tightwad), the costs of the EFI unit, a new hood and paint, and all the time to get it hooked up and running will keep me out of the realm of the injected elite :(

 

Quote:
"The intake is 10.0 inches from bottom to top. I had no hood clearance issues in my '76 L-48 (stock hood"

go out and see if the hood would shut with a 10 inch ruler or other device of that lenght propped up vertically in the area of the thermostat housing far forward from where the carb mounts :)

If a hood rework is a relatively easy task for you,the little Weiand blower"not a 671" might be a better way for more HP and ease of installation,price and hp per dollar spent ect

 

Well I did say a "little" hood work, I'd like to avoid a Merlin sized hood scoop :) EFI is not about HP and definately not about HP/$, there are a million better ways to spend your money if that's the only goal. Increased drivability, gas mileage, tunability, low end torque, cold starts and complete ignition curve tuneability are some of the selling points for me. Plus I'm a computer geek and it sounds like a real fun toy. And anothing selling point of the EFI is when I go twin turbo in a year or two, the carb would be most-unstreetable.

Rob

 

I too am considering this unit. My main concern isn't power but tuneability, cold starts, and gas mileage. I looked through Zwede's site, very nice description and photos of the install. I didn't realize it was going on a big block until the very end.

I'm not sure about the size differences between small and big blocks so my question becomes, will this fit under the stock small block hood. (the Commander 950 not the Stealth Ram.) The Stealth Ram looks way cool but if it requires modifying/replacing the hood it's not really an option. I'm assuming it's much taller than the GM Ram Jet because some have said the Ram Jet fits.

 

Yep, absolutely. If your looking for the most HP for the buck, you should steer far away for ANY Corvette ;) For the techno-geek/gearhead, EFI is the ultimate tinker toy. Rob, are you SURE you don't want the wideband :lol:

UPS just dropped off my FAST and Aeromotive stuff today, and it sure is purty :) You definitely get what you pay for with EFI. The quality of the components is first rate (which it should be for the price!)

BTW, mine fits under the stock hood :eek:

-Joe


[Modified by Flareside, 6:18 PM 4/8/2002]

 

Quote:
"BTW, mine fits under the stock hood "

Now were you not the one that stated in another post that manifolds like 427hotrods would not fit under a C3 BB hood? By the way,his is not as tall as the one you show :D


[Modified by mountainmotor, 11:43 PM 4/8/2002]

 

Curtis, be nice :D The Team G will not fit under the stock hood, trust me. My setup is nowhere near what you're talking about. My Victor has a .5" milled flange to match the taper of the BB hood, and a 2" tall throttle body, and it *just* fits. A Holley carb is 3.25" tall. Where are you going to get the extra 1.25"? The Team G isn't THAT short :lol:

I can also run the air cleaner lid closer to the top of the TB because it doesn't have vents like a carb does. I only need enough clearance to match the CFM I'm running (which I've already verified). You would need a good 2" more hood clearance to put a carb on this thing.


[Modified by Flareside, 8:29 AM 4/9/2002]

 

Flareside:Are you going to use the cowl ducting of your stock hood, an open element, cold air ducting, etc.? Without the mill work, could you have used a cold air chamber on a L-88 or high-rise style hood? I`m searching for ideas myself.Very :cool: work. :cheers:

 

BDAVET, I'm running the stock BB hood, which doesn't have any ducting or cold air. If you run an L88 hood, you can fit a taller EFI intake without the extra work (but then you have the expense of a new hood and paint). I really prefer a stock exterior on my Vette, so the extra work was worth it for me. I'm running my stock L36 air cleaner drop base, a 2.8" x 14" K&N filter, and the K&N Xtreme filter top.

 

Joe,Just razzin ya a bit! No harm meant! At least you understand how the carb is affected by the air filter top being"too" close to the carb.Not that you are using a carb.
You have done your homework well! Actually you have spent so much time on this it would be nice to see you archive a "what will,what will not" fit under the hood of a BB Vette.Which reminds me,have you seen the 8019 Weiand? Looks promising for some

Now just waiting to see what cam winds up in your sig! He He! another razz :)

 

UHHH.. that's just "your" opinion... :lol: :lol: Some of us "ARE" listening. :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod:

 

I looked up 8019 on the Holley site. The picture clearly shows a dual plane manifold, and the text says "single plane". That's Holley for you... I'm also interested in seeing the new 8013, but their link to that doesn't work at all.

I'm working on a web page with everything about my car. I even have a web address already, but my servers down at the moment. http://www.monstervette.com

Cam? At the moment I'd take a hyd. flat tappet if it seemed right for my application!

-Joe