Dart SHP block rant!
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Dart SHP block rant!
Yes, it was stupid on my part to believe that when Dart said that the SHP block could use a 3.875 stroker crank that it actually could.
I have had a stroker 3.875 light weight forged 350 mains rotating kit for years.
The kit was for a 4.125 bore to make a 415 ci motor. So I had the crank polished and micro balanced by a friends shop. They also torque plate honed the new SHP block for me. Yesterday was assembly day at the shop where I work. Everything was going good the crank main barings measured out to .002 and the 6 inch H beam rods with 7/16th ARP bolts were .0025
I file fit the Hastings racing rings. I sprayed the bores and pistons with wd-40 for a fast ring breakin time. I had put in two pistons and attempted to rotate the crank around.
Every pistons rod bolts hits the pan rail and the outboard bottom of the cylinder hole. It is worse than a stock small block chevy for clearance.
So instead of bringing home a degreed in roller cam small block yesterday. It will be many man hours of machining and grinding on the block.
My advice is: The SHP blocks would be good for 377 to 400 engine builds depending on the 4.00 or 4.125 bore. But if you want a real motor spend the $2300 and get the correct 4 inch stroker crank ready block
I have had a stroker 3.875 light weight forged 350 mains rotating kit for years.
The kit was for a 4.125 bore to make a 415 ci motor. So I had the crank polished and micro balanced by a friends shop. They also torque plate honed the new SHP block for me. Yesterday was assembly day at the shop where I work. Everything was going good the crank main barings measured out to .002 and the 6 inch H beam rods with 7/16th ARP bolts were .0025
I file fit the Hastings racing rings. I sprayed the bores and pistons with wd-40 for a fast ring breakin time. I had put in two pistons and attempted to rotate the crank around.
Every pistons rod bolts hits the pan rail and the outboard bottom of the cylinder hole. It is worse than a stock small block chevy for clearance. So instead of bringing home a degreed in roller cam small block yesterday. It will be many man hours of machining and grinding on the block.
My advice is: The SHP blocks would be good for 377 to 400 engine builds depending on the 4.00 or 4.125 bore. But if you want a real motor spend the $2300 and get the correct 4 inch stroker crank ready block
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,139
Likes: 0
From: Salina Kansas
Wow George; that sucks. I do have a friend that had an SHP block 434 completed for his 68 camaro street/strip car which runs low 10s. Not sure how much block clearancing had to be done though. Pretty sure it was a 4" stroke motor. It was done by the local speed shop which did my motor.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Wow George; that sucks. I do have a friend that had an SHP block 434 completed for his 68 camaro street/strip car which runs low 10s. Not sure how much block clearancing had to be done though. Pretty sure it was a 4" stroke motor. It was done by the local speed shop which did my motor.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
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From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
The SHP has big beefy billet splayed main caps. My Motown 434 has big billet 4 bolt main caps that I put together with all ARP studs. My Motown has some good points like you can put in a 4.125 stroker crank and bore it to make a 454 small block
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,703
Likes: 329
From: Scottsdale Arizona
I have to say that I've been pretty impressed by the Motown block that I'm working on. I haven't done a final fit but there seems to be a lot of clearance everywhere and the cylinder wall thickness is very good even bored to 4.185. The proof will be in the final assembly but so far, I like it.
Last edited by CA-Legal-Vette; Feb 20, 2011 at 12:10 PM.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 273
Likes: 11
From: Algona, WA
Change rods?
[QUOTE=gkull;1576842910]
... the 6 inch H beam rods with 7/16th ARP bolts were .0025
... Every pistons rod bolts hits the pan rail and the outboard bottom of the cylinder hole.
I've seen 4" stroke cranks run in these blocks with out clearance issues,
but all used 3/8" H-beam rods w/capscrew's to get the required clearance. Doe's your lightweight crank assembly require such a chunky rod bolt?... I'd look in to a rod with a big end that is more compact? Just a thought.
Dave,
... the 6 inch H beam rods with 7/16th ARP bolts were .0025
... Every pistons rod bolts hits the pan rail and the outboard bottom of the cylinder hole.
I've seen 4" stroke cranks run in these blocks with out clearance issues,
but all used 3/8" H-beam rods w/capscrew's to get the required clearance. Doe's your lightweight crank assembly require such a chunky rod bolt?... I'd look in to a rod with a big end that is more compact? Just a thought.
Dave,
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,057
Likes: 4
From: Concord Calif
Yes, it was stupid on my part to believe that when Dart said that the SHP block could use a 3.875 stroker crank that it actually could.
I have had a stroker 3.875 light weight forged 350 mains rotating kit for years.
The kit was for a 4.125 bore to make a 415 ci motor. So I had the crank polished and micro balanced by a friends shop. They also torque plate honed the new SHP block for me. Yesterday was assembly day at the shop where I work. Everything was going good the crank main barings measured out to .002 and the 6 inch H beam rods with 7/16th ARP bolts were .0025
I file fit the Hastings racing rings. I sprayed the bores and pistons with wd-40 for a fast ring breakin time. I had put in two pistons and attempted to rotate the crank around. Every pistons rod bolts hits the pan rail and the outboard bottom of the cylinder hole. It is worse than a stock small block chevy for clearance.
So instead of bringing home a degreed in roller cam small block yesterday. It will be many man hours of machining and grinding on the block.
My advice is: The SHP blocks would be good for 377 to 400 engine builds depending on the 4.00 or 4.125 bore. But if you want a real motor spend the $2300 and get the correct 4 inch stroker crank ready block
I have had a stroker 3.875 light weight forged 350 mains rotating kit for years.
The kit was for a 4.125 bore to make a 415 ci motor. So I had the crank polished and micro balanced by a friends shop. They also torque plate honed the new SHP block for me. Yesterday was assembly day at the shop where I work. Everything was going good the crank main barings measured out to .002 and the 6 inch H beam rods with 7/16th ARP bolts were .0025
I file fit the Hastings racing rings. I sprayed the bores and pistons with wd-40 for a fast ring breakin time. I had put in two pistons and attempted to rotate the crank around.
Every pistons rod bolts hits the pan rail and the outboard bottom of the cylinder hole. It is worse than a stock small block chevy for clearance. So instead of bringing home a degreed in roller cam small block yesterday. It will be many man hours of machining and grinding on the block.
My advice is: The SHP blocks would be good for 377 to 400 engine builds depending on the 4.00 or 4.125 bore. But if you want a real motor spend the $2300 and get the correct 4 inch stroker crank ready block
This is why you moc up an engine first!!
If your hitting every where might be a good idea to check rods to the cam also!. Are you hitting on the top or the bottom of the bolt or both?
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
[QUOTE=d555;1576844057]
... the 6 inch H beam rods with 7/16th ARP bolts were .0025
... Every pistons rod bolts hits the pan rail and the outboard bottom of the cylinder hole.
I've seen 4" stroke cranks run in these blocks with out clearance issues,
but all used 3/8" H-beam rods w/capscrew's to get the required clearance. Doe's your lightweight crank assembly require such a chunky rod bolt?... I'd look in to a rod with a big end that is more compact? Just a thought.
Dave,
yup ... or I-beam with 3/8" caps
... the 6 inch H beam rods with 7/16th ARP bolts were .0025
... Every pistons rod bolts hits the pan rail and the outboard bottom of the cylinder hole.
I've seen 4" stroke cranks run in these blocks with out clearance issues,
but all used 3/8" H-beam rods w/capscrew's to get the required clearance. Doe's your lightweight crank assembly require such a chunky rod bolt?... I'd look in to a rod with a big end that is more compact? Just a thought.
Dave,
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Well this is not some kind of wimpy motor. The 785 gram H-beam rods run fine in over 1000 hp small blocks.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
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From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
I have been studying up on blower motors. Centrifical and whipple. Depending on the head cc my 23 cc dished blower pistons I want to have high 8 or near 9 to 1 compression. My 415 ci running with an intercooler at just 10 PSI it is feasable to be right around 800 hp and nearly 700 foot pounds of TQ. With alki/water injection you could change the pulleys and run 12-14 psi
My rings are the .005 over My finished bore is 4.130
My rings are the .005 over My finished bore is 4.130
Last edited by gkull; Feb 20, 2011 at 03:34 PM.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
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From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Hard to make an aftermarket block good for all uses and keep the price down. Many big H beam 6" rods with 7/16 through bolts will require some block clearancing on a stock 3.48 stroke build in a stock block so this is not a big suprise but it does suck if you were not expecting it. The crank probably clears fine but the rods are a different matter. Many 6" H beam rods will probably work fine if they are stroker clearanced rods. I really like the Callies compstar rods. They are stroker clearanced and come with beefy Carr rod bolts. The finish, sizing and weights are second to none. The only drawback is they are forged in China but all machining is done in the states and the forgings are inspected and forged to callies standards.
Hope your build comes out as expected!
Hope your build comes out as expected!
Last edited by 63mako; Feb 20, 2011 at 05:12 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 3
From: NORTHEAST
Yes, it was stupid on my part to believe that when Dart said that the SHP block could use a 3.875 stroker crank that it actually could.
I have had a stroker 3.875 light weight forged 350 mains rotating kit for years.
The kit was for a 4.125 bore to make a 415 ci motor. So I had the crank polished and micro balanced by a friends shop. They also torque plate honed the new SHP block for me. Yesterday was assembly day at the shop where I work. Everything was going good the crank main barings measured out to .002 and the 6 inch H beam rods with 7/16th ARP bolts were .0025
I file fit the Hastings racing rings. I sprayed the bores and pistons with wd-40 for a fast ring breakin time. I had put in two pistons and attempted to rotate the crank around. Every pistons rod bolts hits the pan rail and the outboard bottom of the cylinder hole. It is worse than a stock small block chevy for clearance.
So instead of bringing home a degreed in roller cam small block yesterday. It will be many man hours of machining and grinding on the block.
My advice is: The SHP blocks would be good for 377 to 400 engine builds depending on the 4.00 or 4.125 bore. But if you want a real motor spend the $2300 and get the correct 4 inch stroker crank ready block
I have had a stroker 3.875 light weight forged 350 mains rotating kit for years.
The kit was for a 4.125 bore to make a 415 ci motor. So I had the crank polished and micro balanced by a friends shop. They also torque plate honed the new SHP block for me. Yesterday was assembly day at the shop where I work. Everything was going good the crank main barings measured out to .002 and the 6 inch H beam rods with 7/16th ARP bolts were .0025
I file fit the Hastings racing rings. I sprayed the bores and pistons with wd-40 for a fast ring breakin time. I had put in two pistons and attempted to rotate the crank around.
Every pistons rod bolts hits the pan rail and the outboard bottom of the cylinder hole. It is worse than a stock small block chevy for clearance. So instead of bringing home a degreed in roller cam small block yesterday. It will be many man hours of machining and grinding on the block.
My advice is: The SHP blocks would be good for 377 to 400 engine builds depending on the 4.00 or 4.125 bore. But if you want a real motor spend the $2300 and get the correct 4 inch stroker crank ready block
You probably are using eagle rods which are not a good rod for pan rail clearance or cam clearance as well.
We have been using the Callies rotators and their rods bolts are 1.400 long and will give ample cam clearance as we have been using a cam with a 1.000 base circle cam and smaller base circle then that its pretty hard on lifters as lifter hate small base circle cams.
Also when using the callies rotators you don't need a stroker pan with a 3.875 stroke.
I am a Dart dealer and as far as I know the SHP block is designed for a 3.750 stroke with any steel rod. The Little-M blocks are designed for a 3.875 stroke with any steel rod.
Sounds like you did not do your home work when ordering your parts!!!
Yes, it was stupid on my part to believe that when Dart said that the SHP block could use a 3.875 stroker crank that it actually could.
What are using for a rotator????? What rods??? if your not using a good stroker rods your going to have to use a stroker pan that skips every other bolt hole which you will hate when it leaks if your going to use a steel pan!!!
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 3
From: NORTHEAST
Hard to make an aftermarket block good for all uses and keep the price down. Many big H beam 6" rods with 7/16 through bolts will require some block clearancing on a stock 3.48 stroke build in a stock block so this is not a big suprise but it does suck if you were not expecting it. The crank probably clears fine but the rods are a different matter. Many 6" H beam rods will probably work fine if they are stroker clearanced rods. I really like the Callies compstar rods. They are stroker clearanced and come with beefy Carr rod bolts. The finish, sizing and weights are second to none. The only drawback is they are forged in China but all machining is done in the states and the forgings are inspected and forged to callies standards.
Hope your build comes out as expected!
Hope your build comes out as expected!
As far as I know the rods are machined in China as well to Callies specs and Jack Sparks who designed rods for Carrillo for years desinged the rods for Callies.
The Callies ULTRA rods are made in the U.S. and machine here as well and they are made from a high grade steel and are top of the line!!!
We buy Carr bolts from Carrillo and just the rod bolts cost more then the Callies Compstar rods.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 3
From: NORTHEAST
Yes, it was stupid on my part to believe that when Dart said that the SHP block could use a 3.875 stroker crank that it actually could.
I have had a stroker 3.875 light weight forged 350 mains rotating kit for years.
The kit was for a 4.125 bore to make a 415 ci motor. So I had the crank polished and micro balanced by a friends shop. They also torque plate honed the new SHP block for me. Yesterday was assembly day at the shop where I work. Everything was going good the crank main barings measured out to .002 and the 6 inch H beam rods with 7/16th ARP bolts were .0025
I file fit the Hastings racing rings. I sprayed the bores and pistons with wd-40 for a fast ring breakin time. I had put in two pistons and attempted to rotate the crank around. Every pistons rod bolts hits the pan rail and the outboard bottom of the cylinder hole. It is worse than a stock small block chevy for clearance.
So instead of bringing home a degreed in roller cam small block yesterday. It will be many man hours of machining and grinding on the block.
My advice is: The SHP blocks would be good for 377 to 400 engine builds depending on the 4.00 or 4.125 bore. But if you want a real motor spend the $2300 and get the correct 4 inch stroker crank ready block
I have had a stroker 3.875 light weight forged 350 mains rotating kit for years.
The kit was for a 4.125 bore to make a 415 ci motor. So I had the crank polished and micro balanced by a friends shop. They also torque plate honed the new SHP block for me. Yesterday was assembly day at the shop where I work. Everything was going good the crank main barings measured out to .002 and the 6 inch H beam rods with 7/16th ARP bolts were .0025
I file fit the Hastings racing rings. I sprayed the bores and pistons with wd-40 for a fast ring breakin time. I had put in two pistons and attempted to rotate the crank around.
Every pistons rod bolts hits the pan rail and the outboard bottom of the cylinder hole. It is worse than a stock small block chevy for clearance. So instead of bringing home a degreed in roller cam small block yesterday. It will be many man hours of machining and grinding on the block.
My advice is: The SHP blocks would be good for 377 to 400 engine builds depending on the 4.00 or 4.125 bore. But if you want a real motor spend the $2300 and get the correct 4 inch stroker crank ready block
Right from Darts website
Designed for high performance and heavy duty applications, the SHP block is the ideal starting point for hot rodders, drag racers, circle track competitors, off-roaders and high performance marine enthusiasts.
Features:
- Brand new precision machined cast iron block.
- Siamese bores 4.000" or 4.125" (unfinished).
- Extra thick decks ensure reliable head gasket seal.
- Blind head bolt holes don't go through to water jacket.
- Clearance for 3.75" stroke with steel rods.
- 350 main journals accept commonly available crankshafts.
- Splayed outer bolts on middle main bearing caps prevent cracks.
- Uses standard two piece rear main seal or option for one piece seal.
- Provisions for OE stock roller lifters and cams.
- Uses 1981-1985 stock style oil pan and dipstick.
- Uses stock stamped steel or plastic timing cover.
- All OE bolt holes for starter, clutch ball, etc...
- Priority main oiling system directs oil to main bearings first for more dependable lubrication.
Block Prep Options
Dart blocks are optionally available fully finish prepped. If you choose to order your block this way you can specify a final lifter spec and a final hone spec. Your block will be finish machined to your specs, final prepped and washed, pipe plugs and freeze plugs will be installed, then it will be bagged and boxed. Your block will arrive finished and ready to use!
Features:
- Brand new precision machined cast iron block.
- Siamese bores 4.000" or 4.125" (unfinished).
- Extra thick decks ensure reliable head gasket seal.
- Blind head bolt holes don't go through to water jacket.
- Clearance for 3.75" stroke with steel rods.
- 350 main journals accept commonly available crankshafts.
- Splayed outer bolts on middle main bearing caps prevent cracks.
- Uses standard two piece rear main seal or option for one piece seal.
- Provisions for OE stock roller lifters and cams.
- Uses 1981-1985 stock style oil pan and dipstick.
- Uses stock stamped steel or plastic timing cover.
- All OE bolt holes for starter, clutch ball, etc...
- Priority main oiling system directs oil to main bearings first for more dependable lubrication.
Block Prep Options
Dart blocks are optionally available fully finish prepped. If you choose to order your block this way you can specify a final lifter spec and a final hone spec. Your block will be finish machined to your specs, final prepped and washed, pipe plugs and freeze plugs will be installed, then it will be bagged and boxed. Your block will arrive finished and ready to use!
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Sounds like you did not do your home work when ordering your parts!!!
What are using for a rotator????? What rods??? if your not using a good stroker rods your going to have to use a stroker pan that skips every other bolt hole which you will hate when it leaks if your going to use a steel pan!!!
What are using for a rotator????? What rods??? if your not using a good stroker rods your going to have to use a stroker pan that skips every other bolt hole which you will hate when it leaks if your going to use a steel pan!!!
I did not order the block. I was going with what i had been told and got it from the shop that honed it. They are Manley 785 gram H beams. The same thing I have in my 434.It might be wise to just get stroker 6 inch rods and go with a 1 inch base circle cam. Or do the smart thing and sell the block at a loss and buy the little M.
This not a rush job. I was just cleaning out my garage. It is more like a project fun time spare
I have a morroso stroker pan on my 383 and I think that it is made to clear out to about 4 inch cranks. I was going to use the same kind. It is a 7 quart baffled setup
off to researching the little "M"
Last edited by gkull; Feb 20, 2011 at 11:58 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 3
From: NORTHEAST
I did not order the block. I was going with what i had been told and got it from the shop that honed it. They are Manley 785 gram H beams. The same thing I have in my 434.It might be wise to just get stroker 6 inch rods and go with a 1 inch base circle cam. Or do the smart thing and sell the block at a loss and buy the little M.
This not a rush job. I was just cleaning out my garage. It is more like a project fun time spare
I have a morroso stroker pan on my 383 and I think that it is made to clear out to about 4 inch cranks. I was going to use the same kind. It is a 7 quart baffled setup
off to researching the little "M"
I Think with a Manley rod you will need to go with a smaller base circle than a 1.000
Thats why I am not a fan of 4.000 arm crank in a 9.000 deck block with a std. height cam tunnel as lifters hate small base circle cams and I am sure it shortens the life of the roller lifters thats for sure.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Most Manley rods won't clear the SHP blocks as we found that out the hard way as the head of the rod bolts stick way out compared to other steel rods.
I Think with a Manley rod you will need to go with a smaller base circle than a 1.000
Thats why I am not a fan of 4.000 arm crank in a 9.000 deck block with a std. height cam tunnel as lifters hate small base circle cams and I am sure it shortens the life of the roller lifters thats for sure.
I Think with a Manley rod you will need to go with a smaller base circle than a 1.000
Thats why I am not a fan of 4.000 arm crank in a 9.000 deck block with a std. height cam tunnel as lifters hate small base circle cams and I am sure it shortens the life of the roller lifters thats for sure.
I understand why it is better to actually use larger bore lifters with bigger wheels and 1.00 inch base circle or bigger cams