I bought a VBP rod from one of the fellows here, years ago, been on there since, works fine....I have electric fans and many other mods

just wore out the poly upper bushings some months ago, put in rubber, still fine....

 

Faux, looks nice.
Dang, to all the shims you have on the control arms. Is that due to the new spreader bar or were they there prior to the install? I got maybe 3 shims per entire side and I still have a bit of negative camber. Is your front suspension stock?

 

No its not due to the spreader bar and my suspension except for poly bushings is all factory. I do have as much caster as can be cranked into the suspension but thats all. Camber is set to factory settings.

I have no explantion.

 

nice writeup and its on my list of to dos.....what does it cost?

 

96.00

 

Brad,


How does The Vbp bar effect the car's handling, ride , or steering . That bar is much beefier than my speed direct bar but my bar has really helped just the vbp bar was too tight for my sb with a mechnical fan!

 

Took her out for the test drive this morning, a combination of Interstate, state hwy and a twisty back road with some patches and odd dips.

Big improvement. It was especially noticeable on the tracks in the Interstate and state hwy. Same again when changing lanes cresting the crown. Tracks straight and true. In the twisties, the front held its line much better and deflection when hitting patches & dips was more sure footed.

My next step is to replace the original, never touched, steering box with a Borgenson and eliminate the hydraulic ram and control valve. Have never been a big fan of that design on vehicles intended for spirited driving.

PS: I have already redone the majority of the suspension with a 330lb rear composite spring, Bilsteins on 4 corners, heim joint rods in the rear, new TA bushings, lowered the front by taking 1 coil off the stock springs and upgraded to 17" wheels & Nitto tires.

 

Brad,

I had the same experience with the speed direct bar-BIG Improvement-thanx for the feedback. Shark Bar is going in behind the rear seats this weekend for even more frame stabilization. I have a similar setup but a little more aggressive and do have a recently custom rebuilt/blue printed OEM steering box which now has zero play. I am shocked how good the OEM box is when properly rebuilt, hand adjusted, and with a few custom internal components to eliminate the inherent sloppiness of the recirculating ball steering.

My setup in front:

OEM 1 1/8 inch front bar with poly endlink and mounting bushings
upper and lower poly control arm bushings
Bilstein Heavy Duty shocks with poly bushings
Blueprinted/Custom rebuilt OEM Steering box
550 springs 1 inch shorter than stock
Speed Direct Spreader bar
255/45/17 ZR Kuhmo Tires on SLP rims

In the Rear:

360 Composite Spring with poly cushions
Competition Heavy Duty adjustable Struts with Heim joints
Bilstein Sport Shocks (30% stiffer than the front HD's)
3/4 OEM type rear sway bar with poly mounting bushings
255/50/17 ZR Kuhmos tires on SLP rims

Hope that helps!

 

Wow thats not too terribly different than the setup on my car -

My setup in front:

OEM 1 1/8 inch front bar with poly endlink and mounting bushings
upper and lower poly control arm bushings
KYB shocks
Sloppy original OEM Steering box
Gymkana front springs
Speed Direct Spreader bar
255/45/17 ZR Kuhmo Tires on SLP rims

In the Rear:

Gymkana 7-leaf steel spring
VB&P smart struts - 1/2" aluminum spacer between bracket and diff
KYB shocks
Offset trailing arms w/ poly bushings
VB&P Crossmember reinforcing kit
Original rear sway bar with poly mounting bushings
255/50/17 ZR Kuhmos tires on SLP rims

 

fauxrs, I understand this will change the rear geometry, but what is the effect of the spacer?

 

Appreciate all the info. Ordered Spreader Bar Yesterday. Have a great one. Gene

 

Lowering the inner rear camber strut links from their OEM location lowers the rear roll center and reduces rear negative camber gain. That doesn't mean camber gain is a bad thing which ought to always be eliminated altogeter, unless you're at the strip. Modern tires don't requre as much as did bias tires from the time the C3 was engineered (the C2 had even more gain), and I consider John Greenwood's recommendation of lowering them 1/2" as the default adjustment for anyone who doesn't chassis-tune thru actual testing. The top of the VBP "inclination" slot is ~1/2" down...

 

You have all the components to make your car go from really good to great in the handling department with just a few more changes!

I would seriously consider replacing the KYB's (as you noted) with Bilstein's (either HD's or sports or both like I have). Most importantly, you have to do something with the OEM steering box. You probably can guess that I am NOT a fan of replacing OEM designed suspension steering components with aftermarket ones that were NOT originally on the car like the Borgeson/Rack and Pinion steering so I opted to maximize the saginaw recirculating steering box and I am VERY happy and surprised at what it can do if setup correctly. The feel is excellent now with zero sloppiness and play. To me the major advantage of the Borgeson/R&P steering is that they have quicker steering ratios than the 16:1 of the OEM box but I don't need quicker steering on the street. Obviously I am quite familair with the R&P steering on my other cars and I believe that my 2008 300 has a Borgeson type box which I do like very much.

Lastly,

I would ditch the steel spring for a 360 composite. The spring and shocks will transform the ride and handling alone!

I will give an update on my car once the Shark bar is installed behind the seats!

 

Hmmm, have been working on a timing issue and now getting more seat time with the bar installed. As stated earlier, the front tracking is greatly improved.

What it seems is that I'm feeling additional rear roll and sway and some added over steer now. Am wondering if the spreader bar is increasing the effect of the stock 7/8" front sway bar. Being a small block car, it doesn't have a rear sway bar.

Thoughts?

 

Beyond simply "tying the front end together" better, adding a spreader bar increases the percentage of work the springs, bars and shocks actually do while reducing that resultant from frame flex, and improves weight transfer and dynamic alignment characteristics. The improvement in wieght transfer efficiency increases anti-roll stiffness at the front end by some amount, which in and of itself would not move F/R balance towards oversteer. At the same time, assuming good static alignment and geometry, reduced flex between the towers translates into better management (theoretically) of the front tires' contact patches.

From what you've described, it's quite possible you might have gained more grip from the latter effect than lost due to the former. In addition, you may also be feeling a more pronounced difference in roll desires. And, there's such an animal known as roll-oversteer where excessive roll in and of itself causes the rear suspension to move into very adverse dynamic alignment, but this usually occurs only when there is far too soft a rear spring/bar/shock combination. With a 330# rear spring you really shouldn't be in that territory.

As for bar adjustments, better to listen to what your backside tells you the car needs in order to put balance where you like it rather than to go by speculation alone. Generally, you only stiffen up the rear if you have understeer and don't wish to soften up the front, but be careful to find out what the car does at its limits in a safe place.

There's also a chance your rear ride height and/or roll center might need adjustment.

 

Thanks for the insight TSW!

Your last sentence was also something I was thinking about as I do have the car lowered with 8" bolts and 1 coil removed. The F/R balance could be out of whack with too much to the front. Would a too low rear result in the roll-oversteer condition?

I'll take it to my brother's shop and put on the 4 wheel scales.

What is the optimal F/R distribution ratios?

It definitely has a different feel when entering and hitting the apex of hard corners. My normal pre-cornering "set up" didn't result in the normal response.

Thanks again.

 

BTAL, I'll PM you to keep my reply from infringing further into the OP's thread.

 

I just installed the spreader bar from Speedirect and all I can say is "WOW"! what a difference it feels like a different car. The front is much stiffer when going over bumps.

 

SOme others may be curious of your answer to thae question < < ? ?

 

yeah my part in the thread is mostly done - bring on detailed information thats only slightly relavant