TheSkunkWorks

That the "builder" doesn't have his own machine shop doesn't make him a hack. He's a hack if he doesn't know what he's doing and/or is knowingly screwing you. In any event, as there have always been a number of highly reputable shops only minutes away from me, it's hard to understand why anyone wouldn't have their machine work done locally. IMOE it's just not that hard to develop a working relationship with a good local shop. My $.02. Hope things eventually work out for the better.

69 Chevy

Gulp. Funny, I never associate Vermont as the Chevy speed mecca.

billla

It's not "your fault" that this guy isn't doing good work for you. The lesson here should just be that repuation is important, but it's not everything. References are far better - calls with the last 3 guys he built engines for tells you a lot. I would offer the lessons learned are a) check references - not reputation and b) get it in writing.

Verbal contracts can be...interesting...as a basis for a lawsuit. I was going to say more, but I guess if things work out that way you'll find out for yourself how that works out.

Remember the Chinese proverb: "When seeing revenge, first dig two graves". My point being that you'll spend a ton of money and most likely get nothing. Have you actually talked to the builder yet? The machine shop? I gave pretty simple guidance that will take about an hour max. Before you get wound up about the end game, take direct action to salvage the situation to the best extent possible. Every day you wait this thing gets more out of hand and less likely for a reasonable outcome.

As for power output...I think you'll have a hard time making more than about 1 HP/CID max. For a 383, those flow numbers are more for a mild 383 than something making better than 1.2 HP/CID. "Worked on" covers a lot of ground and may open that up a bit - but it's typically more expensive to have hand porting work done than to just buy a head capable of the power targets.

Make the calls. Be honest. Get answers to the hard questions. Send an email recap of the conversation. Let us know how it goes

Lemans Blue 69

I very recently had my L46 pulled and completely rebuilt to include new aluminum heads, intake, pistons, a comp roller cam and roller rocker arms, elec ignition, headers and more. Now I don't know a lot about engines but enough to get by. I just don't understand why your builder is using a flat tappet cam?? Since it is all broken down, why not go roller? Am I missing something? Anyone have and answer to that?

By the way, my shop did it all at his place. patsauto
Thanks

TWINRAY

when I pulled the heads on my OEM motor with 90K miles, 3 lifters were about to "go." Now, I bought the car with 40K miles on it back in '73 but after that, it was 3K or under for O/F changes. Base motor, auto and 3.08 rear, the car was far from being abused. I was really suprised with the wear. When considering a rebuild on the OEM motor, a roller cam was a definate do.

69 Chevy

That's an awful clean lifter valley for 40K miles.

billla

Flat-tappet cams are fine with the right break-in and oil, and they can easily be used well past this power level. Of course, we don't have any details on what cam was used in this case, so it's hard to say if it's the right fit...but those heads really can't use much cam

However, the only reasons I can think of for not going roller are a) cost and b) originality.

Cost is a bit of a non-starter; figure about $500 or so extra but the power benefits are so significant it's probably the cheapest power/$ you can buy. And starting from a late-model roller engine allows reusing the factory components up to about .525 lift or so. Those engines often also show very little wear...so they're the best starting point these days; I don't buy older cores any more as they're mostly scrap.

Originality I get to some extent - the LT-1 or L-46 cams for example have a unique original sound that is very recognizable. But there's a cost to some extent in power, so it's a trade-off.

Lemans Blue 69

EX9850, Let us know of the end result. Billla and Blockman, thanks for the input. Since I had the roller cam, aluminum heads, pistons and intake installed, with a few other things, a remarkable difference in performance. Engine still remains a 350 and not a 383. Don't want to hi jack this post so will start one soon and give the cam specs as well as dyno tests performed before and after rebuild.

aussiejohn

G'day,

I'm reminded of the words of the late Samuel Goldwyn (the G in MGM )
who said "A verbal contract ain't worth the paper it's written on."

Caveat emptor.

Regards from Down Under.

aussiejohn

texas jim

Feel free to call the machine shop in Vermont. If the guy you're dealing w/ locally isn't doing right, the place in Vermont would want to know anyway, as they wouldn't want their reputation blemished due to this guy's ill practices. Make sure the place in Vermont even has your engine. Taking someone's word isn't any guarantee.

ex9850

An update on things. The engine builder went into a tirade when I tried to talk to him. It was ugly so I decided to let him finish his work and out of my hair. I doubt the engine will produce 450 hp. I don't have easy access to a dyno unless I drive 200 miles to a rw dyno. Not sure what rwhp would mean as I have no idea how much rwhp it takes to get 450 hp at engine. I will get this done but I want a new mechanic on the job. I will get the car next week so I will let you know what I think of the results (after a reasonable break-in).

billla

Sorry you're in the situation. Honestly, in that situation I would have probably gone the other way - told him to stop work, have a final bill ready and pick up my pieces.

I'd be less worried about the power levels than the longevity of the engine.

No easy answer for sure - hope it works out

Kerrmudgeon

Too much vagueness for me with those details. I'd insist on exact parts and prices of parts being used so you can research them, and definitely talk to the machine shop on a regular basis, the old squeaky wheel syndrome! Also a detailed statement of progress and payments made including dates. Shipping out of state would have been the my breaking the deal point.

Solid LT1

Sounds like he was "Tweeking" might I suggest a glass pipe and a butane lighter for his Xmass gifts. I doubt your motor will be finished by late December from your description of how things are going (I know the type, a thousand excuses and poor results in final product.) Anyone who treats me like crap during a business transaction will immediatley cease to lose my business and I will look elsewhere to spend my time and hard earned money. Good luck I think your going to need it of you stay with this person.

milo30

there is no excuse for you not being provided a list of parts that are going to be used in the rebuild and you SHOULD know what is happening to the exhaust if you are paying for that also. They are working for you, there is no reason to put up wit any tirade. I really can't believe that you would just let him finish to get him out of your hair.

When you say that you want a new mechanic are you saying that you are going to pay another party to do work that you have already paid this guy to do?

I agree with someone elses comment, that you shouldn't be concerned about the HP. I'd be more concerned with the engine being reliable and holding together at this point.

Personally I would have never been in an argument for something that I am paying good money for. Plenty of other builders out there
who will be more open about what they are doing. You have basically given this guy a blank check to do what he wants.

dar322

ex- yeah i'm familiar with this type too. my guess is you'll be lucky to get it back by spring. i'm sure the builder has his priorities and next month is deer season. you'll have to handle it delicately. stay on him but keep your cool. you may try and offer him some additional incentive money if he gets it done by a certain date that both agree to. And then find a mechanic in this forum to fix all his mistakes. and than blast him every chance you get.

billla

I would also note...there's no reason not to post the builder's name here. He's made a choice not to do quality work for you, and so should reap the benefit in a public forum of that choice.

htown81vette

It's hard to know when someone REALLY will do a good job for you, even though their rep is good. I've used a shop that everyone SWEARS is the best shop in the history of the world, but everytime I go in there, I get average work and leave with an empty wallet. Hype is hype, some people are just good at marketing themselves I guess...

billla

Has the "everyone" actually had an engine done by them? That's what I find interesting...when someone recommends or defends a shop and then admits that they've never actually had work done by them.

I agree, though - it's all about recent references, not reputation.

htown81vette

It's funny but they actually send their motors out to get built by someone else.