Electromotive EFI
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From: hamilton square NJ
Re: Electromotive EFI (BDAZVET)
yeah that's what i was talking about. It has fuel rails, injectors, and everything you can name except for the pump. Can a crank trigger be reliable for the street?
[Modified by xfactor974, 3:13 AM 5/9/2002]
[Modified by xfactor974, 3:13 AM 5/9/2002]
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From: Tempe Az
Re: Electromotive EFI (xfactor974)
Quote:"Can a crank trigger be reliable for the street?"
Absolutely! All the new cars and trucks (GM anyway ) use them. And all new GM vehicles use distributorless ignition, probably all the makes. It`s a wonderful thing. I had a `90 454 TBI and now have a `98 454 Vortec. The new one is so smooth! And throttle response is night and day compared to the old one. So, this technology is proven. But, there is a whole new learning curve when you do your own work
Absolutely! All the new cars and trucks (GM anyway ) use them. And all new GM vehicles use distributorless ignition, probably all the makes. It`s a wonderful thing. I had a `90 454 TBI and now have a `98 454 Vortec. The new one is so smooth! And throttle response is night and day compared to the old one. So, this technology is proven. But, there is a whole new learning curve when you do your own work
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From: FL
Re: Electromotive EFI (BDAZVET)
I was in error! Electromotive does have TPI manifolds for both small and big blocks! Includes everything.
-Noel
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From: hamilton square NJ
Re: Electromotive EFI (Noel Carboni)
Sounds like you guys are in favor of the system. I agree with you Bdazvet, follow GM. They have engineers to do research 24hrs a day so where they go is the place we should be heading. Now where can I mount them Direct Fire Units on my vette? There's about zero room under our hoods. Hence the battery in the rear.
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From: Tempe Az
Re: Electromotive EFI (xfactor974)
xfactor974:
I have seen them mounted beside the valve covers using valve cover bolts, I would think. Depending on the manifold you use, it may be installed along the upper valve cover rail. Remember, that without the distributor, there may be room to attach them, one above the other. Maybe even using the shield brackets for supports. You can use your imagination. I was thinking, if I use Electromotive, to try installing them around the distributor area and then using the stock shield to cover them, or fab something like the stock shield. These units don`t take up that much space. Maybe you would leave them exposed for the wow factor. You could even fab a bracket and install them above the valve covers. Do you have a definite price on the TEC-3?
I have seen them mounted beside the valve covers using valve cover bolts, I would think. Depending on the manifold you use, it may be installed along the upper valve cover rail. Remember, that without the distributor, there may be room to attach them, one above the other. Maybe even using the shield brackets for supports. You can use your imagination. I was thinking, if I use Electromotive, to try installing them around the distributor area and then using the stock shield to cover them, or fab something like the stock shield. These units don`t take up that much space. Maybe you would leave them exposed for the wow factor. You could even fab a bracket and install them above the valve covers. Do you have a definite price on the TEC-3?
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From: hamilton square NJ
Re: Electromotive EFI (BDAZVET)
Flareside where is your reasoning behind the air flow velocity with the single plane and FI. It's still going to have less velocity at idle and low rpms than a dual plane and therefore make less torque. If I'm wrong do you have dyno pulls to show? BDAZVET the $2295 is definite from EIP Tuning. That's for the TEC-3 multipoint kit I believe. I'll have to call back and verify
[Modified by xfactor974, 9:16 PM 5/10/2002]
[Modified by xfactor974, 9:16 PM 5/10/2002]
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From: Roxbury NJ
Re: Electromotive EFI (xfactor974)
Flareside where is your reasoning behind the air flow velocity with the single plane and FI. It's still going to have less velocity at idle and low rpms than a dual plane and therefore make less torque. If I'm wrong do you have dyno pulls to show? BDAZVET the $2295 is definite from EIP Tuning. That's for the TEC-3 multipoint kit I believe. I'll have to call back and verify
[Modified by xfactor974, 9:16 PM 5/10/2002]
[Modified by xfactor974, 9:16 PM 5/10/2002]
Did someone recommend that you run a dual plane? Electromotive?
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From: Tempe Az
Re: Electromotive EFI (xfactor974)
Manifolds: I think one reason is that EFI does not need the venturi effect that a carbed engine needs, which is why single planes are not good for street motors with carbs and do not perform well until the upper rpm ranges, where velocity takes over and the carb can perform. Since MPI manifolds direct air only, as opposed to air/fuel atomization, a dual plane can give unwanted/uneeded air flow restriction. Some builders will remove the dividers and such when converting a dual plane, but with all the good single planes available for EFI conversion, why bother. If loss of torque is a concern using a single plane conversion, then shorter intake runners are the solution. This is why some like the TPI units- they were designed with torque in mind- because most people do their driving in the lower rpm`s. They are not that good in the upper rpm range, so those that want more high end performance go with longer tubes and bigger throttle bores. Always a compromise. I do not know if the Air Gap is that compromise; good torque and good high rpm hp with EFI. Did this make any sense?
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From: SLC, UT USA
Re: Electromotive EFI (xfactor974)
I was once told by a shop that converts intakes to port injection that the tops of the runners of dual plane manifolds are uneven and make it difficult to set up the injectors all the same height for the fuel rails.
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From: hamilton square NJ
Re: Electromotive EFI (dsagers)
ok, yup that does make sense. flareside sorry to come down on you but i didn't see the logic in that. i guess if you are just directing air single plane would be better. and i agree that i've never seen a dual plane efi conversion.
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From: Roxbury NJ
Re: Electromotive EFI (xfactor974)
flareside sorry to come down on you.
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From: Tempe Az
Re: Electromotive EFI (xfactor974)
BUT: If you were to go with TBI, then an Air Gap would probably be the hot ticket. And with a drop down air cleaner set up, it would still look like a carbed motor, if you hide distributorless ignition...I was looking into the Barry Grant VFI ( venturi fuel injection ) which replaces the fuel bowls on a Holly with injectors; supposedly the best of both worlds. But I think they ran into some snags and I have not heard from them again about availability or if they just dropped the idea. It sounded like a cool idea! I have now set my sights on IR EFI. This is a little harder to research.
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From: New Wilmington PA
Re: Electromotive EFI (xfactor974)
Thanks for the linkage. Been looking around for a good (yet less expensive than FAST) EFI/Spark package. This one looks nice.
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Re: Electromotive EFI (73-454)
Why go through the hassel and wasted money, You cant beat a GM HEI and a Q-Jet for the street. They will never let you down just set them and forget abought them.
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From: hamilton square NJ
Re: Electromotive EFI (BSeery)
I don't mean to start fights with you flareside. i'm was just questioning the thinking behind the advice. i like to nit pick. Hey if GM is running single plane on their production cars than I'm all for it. They spend countless hours researching this stuff so we can sit back and reap the benefits.
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From: Tempe Az
Re: Electromotive EFI (BSeery)
Why go through the hassel and wasted money, You cant beat a GM HEI and a Q-Jet for the street. They will never let you down just set them and forget abought them.
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From: Orange Park Florida
Re: Electromotive EFI (Flareside)
Flare, I think the primary reason a dual plane is not used for injection work is the mounting of the injectors and the passage angles not being the same when injectors are facing the intake valves, as is correct....
when doing a dual plane many times the injector mounting will wind up restricting airflow due to passage angles....
and also the top of the injectors will not line up for a fuel rail....so that makes for a plumbing nitemare....
I converted an old Pontiac 455 to DPFI computer controll once a decade ago.and I can assure you of these problems, and the cheby manifolds look even harder....
GENE :cool: :cool:
when doing a dual plane many times the injector mounting will wind up restricting airflow due to passage angles....
and also the top of the injectors will not line up for a fuel rail....so that makes for a plumbing nitemare....
I converted an old Pontiac 455 to DPFI computer controll once a decade ago.and I can assure you of these problems, and the cheby manifolds look even harder....
GENE :cool: :cool:
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From: Roxbury NJ
Re: Electromotive EFI
xfactor,
What is the porpose of a dual plane? It has these main features:
1. It has long and narrow runners to promote low speed torque. The runners have severe turns that hurt performance.
2. It has a divided plenum that keeps the intake pulses at 180* to increase vacuum at the carb venturi. This is very beneficial to throttle response when using a carburator that relies on vacuum to introduce fuel.
None of this makes sense in an EFI environment. The fuel is injected under pressure, so there is no need for a venturi effect. The narrower runners of the dual plane would certainly increase velocity, but not because it's a dual plane, just because they are too small for the engine. You will lose horsepower. If you really want that low speed velocity, there are better ways to do it with EFI (use the correct heads and intake just like GM does!)
A few people have created EFI dual planes, but like everybody said they are more labor intensive due to the different runner heights. The big question is "Why"?
Your "nitpicking" has clouded your vision :D
[Modified by Flareside, 9:20 AM 5/12/2002]
What is the porpose of a dual plane? It has these main features:
1. It has long and narrow runners to promote low speed torque. The runners have severe turns that hurt performance.
2. It has a divided plenum that keeps the intake pulses at 180* to increase vacuum at the carb venturi. This is very beneficial to throttle response when using a carburator that relies on vacuum to introduce fuel.
None of this makes sense in an EFI environment. The fuel is injected under pressure, so there is no need for a venturi effect. The narrower runners of the dual plane would certainly increase velocity, but not because it's a dual plane, just because they are too small for the engine. You will lose horsepower. If you really want that low speed velocity, there are better ways to do it with EFI (use the correct heads and intake just like GM does!)
A few people have created EFI dual planes, but like everybody said they are more labor intensive due to the different runner heights. The big question is "Why"?
Your "nitpicking" has clouded your vision :D
[Modified by Flareside, 9:20 AM 5/12/2002]
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From: Tempe Az
Re: Electromotive EFI (Flareside)
Sounds good to me. I did not know it was that big of a hassel to convert a dual plane, but then I never gave it much thought either. Good info here!
Here is a question for you guys. I have read that it is not critical to have the injectors pointed at the valve, but I have also read that it is most advantagous to do so. I would have to agree with the latter. What say you?
Here is a question for you guys. I have read that it is not critical to have the injectors pointed at the valve, but I have also read that it is most advantagous to do so. I would have to agree with the latter. What say you?