A few months ago I saw a video clip on a Ferrari ripping down a road course and the shifting was so quick and hard it sounded awesome... I understood it was a 7 Speed Dual Clutch AUTOMATIC system

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMRmLDZXRRI

As I try to come out of 70's technology, I wonder if a transmission like this can be retrofitted to a C3 427.

Any of ya'll seen one of these animals and have any comments?

Thanks

 

If it was a paddleshift I wouldnt want it.

hear GM has a real sweet 6 spd auto now that could spice things up.
in fact if i break the stick too many more times going to try and get one.

 

as in that would fit a C3?


I just did some searching and see the 6l80E... will do some googling

 

I used to have a '08 VW GTI, with what VW called "DSG" automatic. It was a dual clutch (no torque converter) automated manual transmission. It had one shaft for 1st, 3rd, and 5th and another shaft for 2nd, 4th, and 6th. If you are in first, 2nd gear is waiting on the other shaft ready to go. It wasn't a Ferrari, but the shifts were lightening fast. If you were really ripping off shifts it would make a rappy-farty sound as it shifted. It was kinda cool. I really liked that car, that transmission is used in many of the VW Audi group cars.

 

I currently run as a daily a VW Passat oil burner with 6 speed DSG transmission. I have done 70000 miles in it and I have mixed thoughts about it. It works well with the higher torque of a diesel BUT it has downsides. As with all these robotised transmissions certain road conditions can 'catch-out' the system, for example pulling away from an intersection on a slight incline the system will 'hunt' and jerk - once moving its fine. Icy weather is a serious no-no, the electronic release of the clutch is not as gentle as a torque converter so it willingly spins the wheels pulling away - then the traction control cuts-in and stops drive - which then releases the clutch again and the whole cycle continues. In fact in bad weather the only other cars which seemed to struggle more than the Passat were BMW One series (which, ironically I am getting in January, albeit an 8 speed torque converter automatic!)

 

Hey rosco,

You know it's funny. I had the DSG in my GTI and it worked flawlessly. About a year later, my mom bought a Jetta which also had the DSG (Wolfsburg edition), and I hated how the DSG functioned in her car. It was almost like they were two different cars, but both had the 2.0T and the DSG (and were essentially the same cars). I don't know if the GTI DSG was programed differently, but it was night and day. That being said, if I had to do it over again, I would go with a manual. The *gee-whiz* of the technology was cool, but I like shifting my own gears.

Sorry for the VW thread hijack, but it is dual clutch related... Kinda.

 

You would need computer control for the dual clutch system, and some of that might involve cutting spark to the engine for a few micro-seconds during the shift. Transmission and engine management systems are closely integrated these days. Probably not a realistic retrofit for a C3.



Rick B.

 

its all good.... actually I think VW made the first production model.. I read some guy long ago invented it - just did not have a working model.

 

How do the ratchet shifters work?

I always thought they were cool.

 

My son has been building-up a **** 200SX turbo powered 1981 Datsun Bluebird coupe - he sourced a Japan or Aussie manufactured in-line sequential shifter for the 5 speed. Try searching Renagate Australia for in-line sequential shifters for Muncies and late GM boxes.

 

One of my colleagues has same Passat as me - its perfect - two colleagues have Audi A3's with same transmission - both perfect!
Don't get me started about the Honda I-Shift transmission!
Have you thought about using GearVendors overdrive unit on back of Muncie. You can do instant shifts from direct 1st to overdrive 1st (which with M21 is same ratio as direct 2nd) - you only need to physically shift the stick once more from 1st gear position to direct 3rd and then electronically instant shift to overdrive 3rd (same ratio as direct 4th). So only one manual shift covers 1st thru' 4th ratios!

 

Sequentials should not be confused with ratchet type auto shifters which require one to push and pull back and forth up thru the gears; rather with a true sequential shift pattern all upshifts are to the rear and all downshifts are forward.

Renagate does indeed make a sequential shifter for the Muncie, but upon past inquiries I've found they apparently do not offer kits tailored to specific fitments. In any event, I'd think it would perform pretty well mated up to a Muncie dog box (If I went to the trouble I wouldn't do it with syncromesh), but you'd still be stuck with only 4 ratios.

TSW

 

Charlie - I had a hard time keeping up with your knowledge... can you restate that one more time? syncromesh - you mean old styler technology?

By Muncie Dog - you mean M22? I know those rock (no pun) but I want the extra gears.

If I understand rachet shifter - does that refer to a paddle shifter?

I will research Renegate.

Maybe another thread - but I havd to decide between auto or manual... but I currently have a 427 (505hp) w/TH400 and a gear vendor -the Gear Vendor is the problem. Very upset with my tunnel being hacked and how the GV it functions - its really not user friendly. It works if all you use is OD - but to play with gears in between - no way. I do know the GV is gonna go - one way or another.

 

I checked out the 6L80E and would like that idea....

I see where the configuration on the dual clutch would appear to take more room towards the center console and I do not think it would have any chance of fitting a C3.

 

G'day,
I read somewhere in an Aussie publication a few years ago that the "twin clutch" transmission was invented by an engineer in Sydney way back, maybe in the sixties or seventies, but no-one was interested in it. After all, we had the Powerglide, Fordomatic, BW35 and the Hydramatic, what more could you want?

Fuel economy was not quite so prominent on the radar back then, or it might have taken off earlier. As an aside, how many of you know that the "black box" flight recorder was also invented by an Australian, Mr. Warren?

Then there's the Hills hoist, the stumpjump plough, and a whole host of products that have emanated from Down Under.

May I take this opportunity to wish all CF members a Wonderful Christmas and a Happy New Year. Keep on Corvetting!

Regards from Down Under.

aussiejohn

 

Sorry I haven't gotten back to you before now (hectic holidays). By "syncromesh", I am referring to traditional manual transmissions which have syncronizers (including the M22). A "dog box" transmission eliminates standard syncros in favor of larger dogs for gear engagement. A well built dog box will shift a good bit quicker than a typical syncro box (modern dual clutch boxes aside), and will take much more of a beating. However, dog boxes don't often prove user freindly for less than hardcore drivers more accustomed to syncros.

Auto transmission ratchet shifters which mount on the floor and paddle shifters mounted on the column are two different animals. FWIW, auto ratchet shifters are available in a variety of "patterns" for different transmission. Also, TCI has developed an aftermarket paddle-shifted auto for restomod applications, IIRC.

Hope that sidebar hasn't strayed too far OT.

 

There is always the Wilson pre-selector gearbox - usually a 4 speed device often fitted to Armstrong Siddeley cars and some Daimlers up the late 50's/early 60's. Used a fluid flywheel rather than a torque converter - featured a tiny 1"or so x 1" gate shifter on a 'pod' next to steering wheel. Idea was to select gear (say 1st), press 'clutch' pedal (which wasn't actually a clutch - it simply activated your chosen gear), car would remain stationary until you hit the gas, when the fluid fywheel would act like a high-stall torque converter and you pulled away. Repeat action again with selector and actuator for next gear. This was also seen on London Buses from the period. Semi-auto I guess would be the simplest description, but with manual selection.

 

hmmm - interesting what all designs and ingenuity are out there...


Charlie - thanks - I read up on the synchronizer and if I understand correctly, thye synchronizers 'prepare' the next gear for use by identifying the RPMs for easier shifting.

I will also check out the TCI again - I checked that out last year, but if I recall properly teh TCI did not downshift.... will snoop around.

 

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, tho disappointed, if it turns out the TCI doesn't do downshifts, as their roots are rather deep in drag racing.

Back in the day when I was drag racing seriously, one of the original owner's [then] very young sons who couldn't say Torque Converters called the business "torqenburg". Still cracks me up thinking about it.

 

Don't want the paddle shifter? These dual clutch (twin clutch?) transmissions are much different than the Corvette A6 tranny and it's paddle shifters. I take it that these trannys take manual inputs and then shift much faster than a traditional manual transmission.

I have a 08 A6 car. Without paddle shifters, I cannot really control the tranny downshifting and upshifting. With paddle shifters, it's much better but still not satisfactory. I would have much preferred the manual tranny, but my wife ......not happy with the cost of the car.....kicked up a lot of sand about the manual transmission.. So auto tranny it is.

I've had a couple of exciting experiences with the A6 tranny in "Drive." Say, on the freeway, I decide to speed up and merge in between two cars on an adjacent lane...I push on the gas pedal, and get a downshift and a robust acceleration. I start to steer in between the two cars. But now, with the gas pedal down, about a second later, the car DOWN SHIFTS AGAIN and now goes into WOT mode. I've came very close to rear ending two cars. The C6 throttle control is fly by wire. Apparently, if you press for a big acceleration, the computer gives you a sample great acceleration, and if a second later you've still got the gas pedal down, it gives you max power. I really wish I had a manual tranny. The paddle shifters are not as crisp as a manual tranny. However, from what I've read, the auto is still best for a drag strip......don't know if everyone buys into this statement.