What is direct timing?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 246
Likes: 15
From: Pell City AL
What is direct timing?
I have an engine builder installing/setting up a new distributor, coil, CD and carb but have a question concerning timing. I have read the sticky and Lars, which appear to be the gold standard for tuning this ignition, but the engine builder (who is very performance minded) says he wants to "direct tune" the ignition which doesn't use the weights.
I am wondering how common is this procedure, does it risk damaging the engine and what does it do to drivability? My concern is everyone is raving about the Lars procedure so shouldn't that be the best option?
1976
350/30 over
268 Cam
Upgraded alternator
AED 650cfm carb
Roller rockers
700r4/custom torque convertor
Headers w/sidepipes/STS
3:73 gears going in
I am wondering how common is this procedure, does it risk damaging the engine and what does it do to drivability? My concern is everyone is raving about the Lars procedure so shouldn't that be the best option?
1976
350/30 over
268 Cam
Upgraded alternator
AED 650cfm carb
Roller rockers
700r4/custom torque convertor
Headers w/sidepipes/STS
3:73 gears going in
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 20,804
Likes: 959
From: I tend to be leery of any guy who doesn't own a chainsaw or a handgun.
I have an engine builder installing/setting up a new distributor, coil, CD and carb but have a question concerning timing. I have read the sticky and Lars, which appear to be the gold standard for tuning this ignition, but the engine builder (who is very performance minded) says he wants to "direct tune" the ignition which doesn't use the weights.
I am wondering how common is this procedure, does it risk damaging the engine and what does it do to drivability? My concern is everyone is raving about the Lars procedure so shouldn't that be the best option?
1976
350/30 over
268 Cam
Upgraded alternator
AED 650cfm carb
Roller rockers
700r4/custom torque convertor
Headers w/sidepipes/STS
3:73 gears going in
I am wondering how common is this procedure, does it risk damaging the engine and what does it do to drivability? My concern is everyone is raving about the Lars procedure so shouldn't that be the best option?
1976
350/30 over
268 Cam
Upgraded alternator
AED 650cfm carb
Roller rockers
700r4/custom torque convertor
Headers w/sidepipes/STS
3:73 gears going in
Two suggestions: Find a different engine builder, and learn how an ignition system is supposed to work so you won't get jacked around by pseudo-experts.
Asking questions here is free. You'll learn, and I promise you you'll get more than your money's worth.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,682
Likes: 3
From: League City TX
What distributor are you using? There are some that are completely electronic, including the advance curve.
That would be the only way it would be acceptable for your distributor to not use advance weights.
That would be the only way it would be acceptable for your distributor to not use advance weights.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 414
Likes: 55
From: Humboldt county Ca
Why not let the guy do what he's gonna do? You'll know when you drive the car whether it's doing what you want or not. People here jump to conclusions on the use of a mere word or catchphrase. Maybe everybody can learn something from this if you report back and clarify what the fellow did.
By the way-----not using the advance weights may be something as simple as disabling them with tape or a rubber band to check their function in the total timing process.
Also, if you go to a REAL tuner making hot car noises you may get what you asked for but it will only go straight-line and at wide open throttle.
Stump
By the way-----not using the advance weights may be something as simple as disabling them with tape or a rubber band to check their function in the total timing process.
Also, if you go to a REAL tuner making hot car noises you may get what you asked for but it will only go straight-line and at wide open throttle.
Stump
Last edited by stumpshot; Dec 20, 2011 at 11:37 AM.
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 18,626
Likes: 2,553
there is a term called "direct ignition", typically found on modern computerized cars. Instead of one ignition coil each plug has a coil which is energized/fired by a computer. Here is a system that would fit a C3.
http://www.compu-tronix.com/DIS8Chev...ctionSheet.pdf
http://www.compu-tronix.com/DIS8Chev...ctionSheet.pdf
Last edited by MelWff; Dec 20, 2011 at 04:05 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,444
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
I'm with stumpshot! Ask exactly what he is doing. I have an electronic Dizzy and I set my "mechanical & vacuum" advance rate with small dial switches and a jewelers screw driver from choices in a book.
I don't think I have heard of direct timing
If he brings up the terms like locked out timing......... Run away!
I don't think I have heard of direct timing
If he brings up the terms like locked out timing......... Run away!
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,593
Likes: 103
From: Southern Indiana
I have read the sticky and Lars, which appear to be the gold standard for tuning this ignition,
My answer is stick with an HEI.
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Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,948
Likes: 72
From: Oxford MA-----You just lost the game!!!!
Leaving the weights out isn't an issue, unless you plan on changing RPM once in a while.
Two suggestions: Find a different engine builder, and learn how an ignition system is supposed to work so you won't get jacked around by pseudo-experts.
Asking questions here is free. You'll learn, and I promise you you'll get more than your money's worth.
Two suggestions: Find a different engine builder, and learn how an ignition system is supposed to work so you won't get jacked around by pseudo-experts.
Asking questions here is free. You'll learn, and I promise you you'll get more than your money's worth.
Seriously, tho, I have never heard of "direct tuning", but you need to have some sort of ignition advance on a street car. You say you have read the timing sticky and Lars timing paper, so you should have the vocabulary to understand what the tuner is telling you when you ask him to explain it. Ignition timing is not all that complicated, so if you don't understand what he is telling you, it's probably because it is nonsense. There is an old saying that goes "If you can't explain it to a little kid so he understands it, you don't REALLY understand it yourself."
What sort of distributor are you running?
Scott
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,593
Likes: 103
From: Southern Indiana
That means when someone doesn't want to explain how to do something but still wants a # gain, they throw out something else that will give the answer.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,113
From: Crossville TN
Because you are extremely intuitive...
******************
I say that you call your 'builder' on the phone and ask him to explain what 'direct timing' means. Then, post that response on this Forum to see what feedback you get.
The guy may have a legitimate idea; then, again, he may not. But, his idea is either going to 'hold water' for this "tough crowd", or it's not.
You will then know which way to go with your car.
******************
I say that you call your 'builder' on the phone and ask him to explain what 'direct timing' means. Then, post that response on this Forum to see what feedback you get.
The guy may have a legitimate idea; then, again, he may not. But, his idea is either going to 'hold water' for this "tough crowd", or it's not.
You will then know which way to go with your car.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,593
Likes: 103
From: Southern Indiana
Yea and this.
It just sux everytime someone ask for help, instead of giving a few quick tips so they run out to the garage and work on the car instead the answer is stay out of the garage and sit in front of the computer and read.
So when a question is asked a real internet hero chimes in to read the Lars papers and makes themselves out helpful.
Why not just shut down the site and post a sentence that reads:
"If you have any questions go here to this link and read the Lars papers"
It just sux everytime someone ask for help, instead of giving a few quick tips so they run out to the garage and work on the car instead the answer is stay out of the garage and sit in front of the computer and read.
So when a question is asked a real internet hero chimes in to read the Lars papers and makes themselves out helpful.
Why not just shut down the site and post a sentence that reads:
"If you have any questions go here to this link and read the Lars papers"
Last edited by Tim H; Dec 21, 2011 at 07:27 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,716
Likes: 121
From: Sulphur LA
St. Jude Donor '05-'06,'11,'13-'14,'16,'18,'19,'24, '25
Nothing like driving a new build when it exceeds your expectations in the way it runs.
You obviously have faith in this guy in the way you talk about him (very performance minded), let him work his magic and see how it goes.
If you want to know what exactly hes talking about ask him, I'm sure he wont mind explaining.
It comes down to what works best for your combination, You'll get allot of recommendations from here on the forum good and bad but it really comes down to what your combo needs to run its best. Finding that perfect combo is what your after and sometimes takes a lot of trial and error.
Neal
You obviously have faith in this guy in the way you talk about him (very performance minded), let him work his magic and see how it goes.
If you want to know what exactly hes talking about ask him, I'm sure he wont mind explaining.
It comes down to what works best for your combination, You'll get allot of recommendations from here on the forum good and bad but it really comes down to what your combo needs to run its best. Finding that perfect combo is what your after and sometimes takes a lot of trial and error.
Neal
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Yea and this.
It just sux everytime someone ask for help, instead of giving a few quick tips so they run out to the garage and work on the car instead the answer is stay out of the garage and sit in front of the computer and read.
So when a question is asked a real internet hero chimes in to read the Lars papers and makes themselves out helpful.
Why not just shut down the site and post a sentence that reads:
"If you have any questions go here to this link and read the Lars papers"
It just sux everytime someone ask for help, instead of giving a few quick tips so they run out to the garage and work on the car instead the answer is stay out of the garage and sit in front of the computer and read.
So when a question is asked a real internet hero chimes in to read the Lars papers and makes themselves out helpful.
Why not just shut down the site and post a sentence that reads:
"If you have any questions go here to this link and read the Lars papers"
Your helpful contribution didn't answer his question at all, simply mentioned 'sticking with HEI', then berated him for mentioning 'the papers'
Last edited by Mike Ward; Dec 21, 2011 at 11:05 AM.
