I am not going to argue, I could get 15mpg out of a 454ci no problems. Of course your engine runs, probably runs fine too but if you think 9mpg is the way it is supposed to be go talk to a mechanic in your area. The thing that bugs me is you will find out your running way too rich and I was right that you will never post an apology.

If yours is running correctly how do I get 24mpg on the highway and 15 or so ( have to look that up, it's in a thread a few pages back) out of a 427ci 600+hp small block that has a Drag Race Demon on it that flows 975cfm? Merry Christmas

 

The only way your going to know what's really going on is to strap the car to a dyno and monitor all parameters, including brake specific fuel consumption (BSFC) with the system on and off.

Anything else is a WAG.

 

Can you fix or adjust his driving style? That's half the battle in itself.

 

Simple answer----you don't. And if you want to change my rear end gearing in 10 minuites with your eyes closed, blind folded, and gagged, have at!

 

For a thread that ask for your respect in the title of the post this has really went in a direction of disrespect to the original poster.

I think most are missing the point, you start with a base line from a test vehicle, then add the system to see an increase in fuel performance, which has been done in this test.

Why do all the know it all's have to step in and prove that they win the award for being a know it all ***. If someone is really intelligent, they will share their knowledge and give examples and break down to help educate others that share an interest in the topic at hand. If you have real interest in this post, try to be helpful, if not, get out and let others participate in a discussion that might bring some positive results.

When you have everyone saying it can't be done and it's been tried over and over, maybe, just maybe, someone will come along and add that missing peace that makes everything come together and suddenly we have a system or product that works. Lets continue to advance instead of allowing ourselves to say, it can't be done.

Now may we go back to the regular scheduled program.

Riggs

 

I agree with Riggs. Before my retirement I was involved in alternative fuel systems. Often the main drawback to a solution were when managers and mechanics refused to think outside the box they created for themselves. Taking a concept and making it work is tough there is often more failures than successes.

 

Combustion engines can run on hydrogen. That's been proven decades ago. Hell, BMW has a production-ready 6-series that runs on hydrogen and Jay Leno even owns one. We also use many combustion enhancing products, such as NOS.

However, I do share the questions my fellow posters have and I think (know) it's simply not possible for this small setup to provide enough H20 to keep up with the engines demand. Furthermore I question if the required demand in electricity doesn't trump the gain in economy. The same discussion as with electrical fans, water- and fuelpumps.

Now, were you to have a liquid hydrogen tank and the hydrogen was produced at home (or using wind/solar energy), then you might win some due to the lower cost of electricity.

But this setup... it would take a fair amount of driving to break even. For example: if I would install a LPG or CNG system in my car (very common in The Netherlands) I know I can run on a fuel which is three time cheaper than regular pump gas. The installation costs about $2000,-. I would still have to drive 15.000 km's to break even, which comes down to three or four years of cruising.

 

How many eggnogs you have today? what you are saying is that I am a l am not telling the truth in other words you are flat out calling me a liar.

That makes me really mad, you got some cash to back up what you say, 500 or so and I will prove beyond any doubt I am getting the mileage I say I am. I have already proven it, just because you can't tune a carb doesn't mean others can't

Who said anything about rear gears ? Even with 4:10's you should be at 15 mpg around town, boy this forum is making me dumber and dumber as time goes on no wonder so many talented people left and we are left with morons that think 10mpg is normal for a 350ci motor

 

Peace,,, moosie

 

started a post as this one and than removed it, just wasn't worth the effort on Christmas day.

Its a shame but this is the way the forum has been heading for a good while now.

 

I'm with Riggs...

The OP had a thread like this a few months back and the "bashers" had a field day.
If the OP has a interest in this stuff and wants to post about it where's the harm.
To respectively disagree is one thing but there is no reason to be rude.
Some of you should have been taught better manners when you were young.

 

There is no way that device can possibly produce enough O2 or H to make any measureable impact on fuel economy. If I wanted fuel economy I'd cruise around in a Saturn. Is it rude to disagree with another member?

 

If he had said he gets 15mpg with his motor ( which in my mind is what he should be getting or better ) and it went up to 18mpg with his device he might have something there.

But to say his mileage was 7.7 and went up to 9.9 in what I presume to be a stock or near stock engine takes all the credibility out of his post. Get the motor running correctly and see if there are any changes, then you might have something. I certainly am not bashing the OP I am pointing out a flaw in his testing. It certainly occupies his time and he likes what he is doing and again I applaud what he is doing, but in testing there is baseline or legitimate starting point and I do not believe he has one yet.

I'll leave the part out for those in this thread that think 7-10mpg is normal is complete trash from someone who knows nothing about engines.

 

well if you see a post that is in violation of forum rules report it..

OTOH if people simply cannot resist posting a response that is in violation then they will find their posting privleges revoked for a while.

remember folks..just because its posted doesn't mean you must respond.

 

 

I think from the posts that many have this view, and I agree that if he were converting water to H2 and O2 and using that as the power source, there has to be a net loss due to entropy.

But that is not the premiss here.

The OP is of the contention that even this small bit of H2 and O2 acts as a "catalyst" to aid in the more complete combustion of the octane in the tank. If the octane in the engine burns at 85% efficiency, and we use a small bit of this power to produce electricity to make it burn at 90% efficiency, there can be a net gain.

There are many similar examples of reactions that are "catalyzed" by the introduction of even small amounts of "contaminants." (Remember tetraethyllead?)

I would like to see this tested under controlled conditions to know if it is real or ...

 

Oh, I see. By calling it a different name you change the properties of the combustion process........

 

You tell me.

When they started putting MTBE in the fuel, the gas mileage on my '91 dropped by 2 mpg cruising on the freeway. (The '91 has real time fuel monitoring so I don't need to calculate anything.) This was ONLY due to the addition of the MTBE. When they took it out, the mileage went back up.

 

Sh-60B:

First: Did you fly the A/C or where you a maintainer? If you flew them, I take my hat of to you. Those early version of the H-60 were a pain the back end. If you are a maintainer, I solute. Those were the worst design A/C for "small boys".

If you were in east coast Navy, I don't know you. If you spend some time on the west coast then we probably met, since I had a lot on influence on how that a/c was to be maintained and keep it flying before the corrosion got to it.

Second: I started this post to share what I've been doing as an experiment, the LT1 (First vetter) was a barn find as everyone calls is. After I got it running I wanted some personal experience on the claim of induction Hydrogen to ICE will help clean the the carbon build. The car had 92K miles when I got it, it took me 4 months until it was drivable and the engine running. Yes, the car ran rick (lots of fuel right). I left it that way because I wanted to see if the hydrogen will help burn all of the scheduled fuel. The average car running rich will have a black tailpipe, after installing the system I started to noticed the tailpipe getting clean and the exhaust not smelling like a rich running car.

I drove the car running rich, after two full tank of gas to and from work and church I average 7.7 mpg. Not the best way to test for average, never the less it is an average. activated the system driving the same way to and from work and church. after two full tank of gas, I got the increase. Again not your ideal method but I have something to compare.

Oh yeah, as far as my english and not able to put together a perfect sentence and have my credability questioned. I got my point across and got some rude people out of their caves. As my wife tells me, you have way with words even with you chinese english.

By the way the FLIR system on the a/c. What did you think about it after it was installed on the "diving board". It was tough getting the Vibs dial in on the a/c. You do know what I am talking about right.

Just so I made myself clear, this system will produce enough hydrogen to make a difference being used as a catalyst not as a fuel.

 

I've been tempted to build one of these, just haven't had the time. MythBusters did an episode on this and I was really dissappointed because they did a really crappy job on the system and of course it didn't work. They did prove that a car would run with a hydrogen hose stuck in the top of the carb (from a tank). On a differant show they ran a gas generator with homemade hydrogen.

Only way to see if there are any gains would be to test it on an OBD2 car and use the same stretch of road while taking snapshots with/without it being turned on. The Short Term Fuel Trim would tell you if the HHO is having any affect. If the Short Term starts backing off the fuel then it is truly working.