Windshield/Birdcage Trim Removal help
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,264
Likes: 3
From: Vero Beach FL
OOOOOHHhhhhh thats not what I like to hear....... I realize the WS out, then screws part but why will the WS break? I have seen numerous people remove the WS on various cars and reuse them. Whats the deal, is it just our cars or some other reason? Is there any way to minimize the chance of breakage?
Will
Will
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,134
Likes: 4,206
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi W,
I don't think anyone has addressed the issue of the windshield's spacing from the windshield frame.
The spacing is what ultimately determines how the stainless steel trim fits. If the glass is too close to the frame there will be a gap between the trim and glass. There is a tiny bit of adjustment on the a-pillar trim pieces, but not on the top piece.
The only sure way to insure that the trim will fit is to install the glass dry, put all the trim in place to test the fit. Then remove the trim and glass, adjust the spacing, install the glass, and then re-install the trim.
Whether or not the installer you have knows about this, is willing to do it, or even cares, is the question. Remember he is used to doing glass on new cars which is a very different procedure.
Regards,
Alan
I don't think anyone has addressed the issue of the windshield's spacing from the windshield frame.
The spacing is what ultimately determines how the stainless steel trim fits. If the glass is too close to the frame there will be a gap between the trim and glass. There is a tiny bit of adjustment on the a-pillar trim pieces, but not on the top piece.
The only sure way to insure that the trim will fit is to install the glass dry, put all the trim in place to test the fit. Then remove the trim and glass, adjust the spacing, install the glass, and then re-install the trim.
Whether or not the installer you have knows about this, is willing to do it, or even cares, is the question. Remember he is used to doing glass on new cars which is a very different procedure.
Regards,
Alan
Pro
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 590
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From: Fairfield CT
Wish I had asked this question/read this thread.
What everyone is saying is right. I wanted to remove all the trim also, and when I saw the two screws for the corner trim, I thought GM couldn't design something this stupid, the bubba who installed it must have done it wrong (my project had been hit and the PO had a new windshield installed).......soooo, if I'm real careful and I just turn the screw driver real easy....and crack!!! The result: [IMG]
[/IMG]
http://LS273Stingray.blogspot.com
[/IMG]http://LS273Stingray.blogspot.com
Last edited by mffi115; Feb 8, 2012 at 09:48 AM. Reason: add pic
Safety Car
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,746
Likes: 713
From: Lafayette Louisiana
My 2 cents
My 76 windshield leaks so I took it to an experienced glass guy in our Corvette club that has had every kind of Corvette and owns 2 successful glass shops.
He said since my glass was original and not cracked (hard to believe), that it would be best to seal it from the outside and not try to remove it. I do not understand this yet, maybe will from reading this post, but there is a high likelyhood of cracking it getting it out, so I sealed it up from the outside like the po did! When it cracks, he said then we will take it out. I also painted the birdcage from the inside as best I could.
I suggest you take it to a Corvette shop and ask them what they think. A common glass guy who is not familar with Corvettes is not the way to go in my opinion, you will likely end up with a new windshield
Hope this helps and good luck!
He said since my glass was original and not cracked (hard to believe), that it would be best to seal it from the outside and not try to remove it. I do not understand this yet, maybe will from reading this post, but there is a high likelyhood of cracking it getting it out, so I sealed it up from the outside like the po did! When it cracks, he said then we will take it out. I also painted the birdcage from the inside as best I could.
I suggest you take it to a Corvette shop and ask them what they think. A common glass guy who is not familar with Corvettes is not the way to go in my opinion, you will likely end up with a new windshield
Hope this helps and good luck!
Last edited by 20mercury; Feb 8, 2012 at 10:39 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,134
Likes: 4,206
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi 20m,
My understanding about the cracking glass is this.
The original glass is now 35-40+ years old and has gotten very brittle. I talked to someone at my local salvage yard and he said if they get 50%of the windshields out without a crack, they've had a good day.
The problem with the 2 corner moulding trim piece screws is that if the shaft from the screwdriver puts even a TINY nick in the edge of the glass, it is the start of a weak spot. If the glass doesn't crack on it's own, it often does the next time the car is jacked up, or hits a bump while driving.
Sad but true!
Regards,
Alan
My understanding about the cracking glass is this.
The original glass is now 35-40+ years old and has gotten very brittle. I talked to someone at my local salvage yard and he said if they get 50%of the windshields out without a crack, they've had a good day.
The problem with the 2 corner moulding trim piece screws is that if the shaft from the screwdriver puts even a TINY nick in the edge of the glass, it is the start of a weak spot. If the glass doesn't crack on it's own, it often does the next time the car is jacked up, or hits a bump while driving.
Sad but true!
Regards,
Alan
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 737
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From: Pennington NJ
Alright, now I see what I'm up against here! I'll send out an email to my local 'Vette shop and see what they have to say.
From what I gather, the removal is the time it will break if ever, correct? Could I just try to "remove" it myself with a really fine wire to cut the glue, and then have the guy come out and remove it 100%? I have a few leads on people who are used to old car glass, so I'll see what they say.
Thanks,
Will
From what I gather, the removal is the time it will break if ever, correct? Could I just try to "remove" it myself with a really fine wire to cut the glue, and then have the guy come out and remove it 100%? I have a few leads on people who are used to old car glass, so I'll see what they say.
Thanks,
Will
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 737
Likes: 3
From: Pennington NJ
What everyone is saying is right. I wanted to remove all the trim also, and when I saw the two screws for the corner trim, I thought GM couldn't design something this stupid, the bubba who installed it must have done it wrong (my project had been hit and the PO had a new windshield installed).......soooo, if I'm real careful and I just turn the screw driver real easy....and crack!!! The result: [IMG][/IMG]
http://LS273Stingray.blogspot.com
[/IMG]http://LS273Stingray.blogspot.com
Will
P.S. Those Firebird wheels on the 'Vette are so cool, those are my favorite wheels of any car
Last edited by Will's'74VetteL-82; Feb 8, 2012 at 04:56 PM.
Pro
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 590
Likes: 2
From: Fairfield CT
That is an awesome blog on your LS2 install, very nice work!
Will
P.S. Those Firebird wheels on the 'Vette are so cool, those are my favorite wheels of any car[/QUOTE]
Thanks. Yeah, those damn screws are juuuust close enough that it tempts you to try, although you know you're screwing up (pun intended).
I have the stock ralleys on now and put the car on the ground - new pic on the blog. If you looked through the blog, you probably saw the pic with the 17x8 SLP ZR-1 look-alikes. I have three sets of tires and wheels to change the look of the car.
Carl
Will
P.S. Those Firebird wheels on the 'Vette are so cool, those are my favorite wheels of any car
[/QUOTE]Thanks. Yeah, those damn screws are juuuust close enough that it tempts you to try, although you know you're screwing up (pun intended).
I have the stock ralleys on now and put the car on the ground - new pic on the blog. If you looked through the blog, you probably saw the pic with the 17x8 SLP ZR-1 look-alikes. I have three sets of tires and wheels to change the look of the car.
Carl
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Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 737
Likes: 3
From: Pennington NJ
Thanks. Yeah, those damn screws are juuuust close enough that it tempts you to try, although you know you're screwing up (pun intended).
I have the stock ralleys on now and put the car on the ground - new pic on the blog. If you looked through the blog, you probably saw the pic with the 17x8 SLP ZR-1 look-alikes. I have three sets of tires and wheels to change the look of the car.
Carl[/QUOTE]
Haha yeah hopefully I dont screw up this process! Those ZR-1 wheels do look great, as well. Do they fit with no problems, or do you need things like the offset trailing arm?
Will
Pro
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 590
Likes: 2
From: Fairfield CT
Thanks. Yeah, those damn screws are juuuust close enough that it tempts you to try, although you know you're screwing up (pun intended).
I have the stock ralleys on now and put the car on the ground - new pic on the blog. If you looked through the blog, you probably saw the pic with the 17x8 SLP ZR-1 look-alikes. I have three sets of tires and wheels to change the look of the car.
Carl
I have the stock ralleys on now and put the car on the ground - new pic on the blog. If you looked through the blog, you probably saw the pic with the 17x8 SLP ZR-1 look-alikes. I have three sets of tires and wheels to change the look of the car.
Carl
Will[/QUOTE]
Just be careful. My screwdriver shaft just barely touched the edge of the ws. If you don't have to remove the corner trim, don't!! I was told by a guy in the vette restoration business afterwards that the ws must be removed to get those screws out. What POS designed that????!!!#$^#@^%
The SLP ZR-1 look-alikes are a direct fit made for the C3 and are available from the major vendors, Ecklers/MidAmerica, etc. The Firebird GTA rims needed 1" adapters. They are also four rear wheels since the backspace on the fronts are too shallow (about 3" if I recall correctly). I got them on Ebay for $100.00 each and the company had great customer service.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 737
Likes: 3
From: Pennington NJ
The SLP ZR-1 look-alikes are a direct fit made for the C3 and are available from the major vendors, Ecklers/MidAmerica, etc. The Firebird GTA rims needed 1" adapters. They are also four rear wheels since the backspace on the fronts are too shallow (about 3" if I recall correctly). I got them on Ebay for $100.00 each and the company had great customer service.[/QUOTE]
Yeah thats a really poor design on GM's part. I'll be even more careful for now on.
Yeah, I really like those SLP wheels.....I might need to do that in the far future! They are
Will
Safety Car
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,746
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From: Lafayette Louisiana
useful how to with photos
Came across this which was very useful to me.
http://www.corvettecentral.com/newsl...pdf/413108.pdf
Hope this helps.
http://www.corvettecentral.com/newsl...pdf/413108.pdf
Hope this helps.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 737
Likes: 3
From: Pennington NJ
Came across this which was very useful to me.
http://www.corvettecentral.com/newsl...pdf/413108.pdf
Hope this helps.
http://www.corvettecentral.com/newsl...pdf/413108.pdf
Hope this helps.
Thanks,
Will
Safety Car
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,746
Likes: 713
From: Lafayette Louisiana
Think so!
Have not done this job yet, but it is on the short list now. I believe you are correct per what the other experts here said.
Pro
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 590
Likes: 2
From: Fairfield CT
Yes, the ws must be removed in order to get at the front screws on those corner pieces. How do I know? Well, the hard way - cracked my ws trying to "gently" turn the screw driver.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 737
Likes: 3
From: Pennington NJ
Thanks,
Will
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
From: STERLING ALASKA
I just did the same task you are undertaking less that 6 months ago. I didn't have any local shops I could trust so I did it my self. I was able to remove the glass my self but it took 4 hours after the trims was off. You may be able to skip the dry fit process if you are able to use the original glass and take depth measurements before removal but be aware if the glass needs replaced the new glass may not be the same thickness. As to what to have on hand I would add new trim retaining clips and attachment screws.
I think the AIM shows 13 each.
I think the AIM shows 13 each.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,008
Likes: 38
From: Space Coast Gator Territory
I just did the same task you are undertaking less that 6 months ago. I didn't have any local shops I could trust so I did it my self. I was able to remove the glass my self but it took 4 hours after the trims was off. You may be able to skip the dry fit process if you are able to use the original glass and take depth measurements before removal but be aware if the glass needs replaced the new glass may not be the same thickness. As to what to have on hand I would add new trim retaining clips and attachment screws.
I think the AIM shows 13 each.
I think the AIM shows 13 each.
I would not recommend POR on the windshield frame. Use a black epoxy primer. The POR is too slick and the windshield caulk will not stick as well, and you don't need that to separate and leak sometime in the future.
As I recall, the windshield is supposed to be spaced 3/8ths from the frame to bottom of glass to fit tight to the upper molding. As stated, if this spacing is not correct, you will have an unwanted gap there. Next time you visit a Corvette show, look for a gap here and you will be looking at an improperly installed windshield.
Last edited by Red 69; Feb 28, 2012 at 10:25 PM.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 737
Likes: 3
From: Pennington NJ
I just did the same task you are undertaking less that 6 months ago. I didn't have any local shops I could trust so I did it my self. I was able to remove the glass my self but it took 4 hours after the trims was off. You may be able to skip the dry fit process if you are able to use the original glass and take depth measurements before removal but be aware if the glass needs replaced the new glass may not be the same thickness. As to what to have on hand I would add new trim retaining clips and attachment screws.
I think the AIM shows 13 each.
I think the AIM shows 13 each.
Yes, I agree on the screws, you will likely strip the phillips heads on removal. I also replaced about six clips when I did mine.
I would not recommend POR on the windshield frame. Use a black epoxy primer. The POR is too slick and the windshield caulk will not stick as well, and you don't need that to separate and leak sometime in the future.
As I recall, the windshield is supposed to be spaced 3/8ths from the frame to bottom of glass to fit tight to the upper molding. As stated, if this spacing is not correct, you will have an unwanted gap there. Next time you visit a Corvette show, look for a gap here and you will be looking at an improperly installed windshield.
I would not recommend POR on the windshield frame. Use a black epoxy primer. The POR is too slick and the windshield caulk will not stick as well, and you don't need that to separate and leak sometime in the future.
As I recall, the windshield is supposed to be spaced 3/8ths from the frame to bottom of glass to fit tight to the upper molding. As stated, if this spacing is not correct, you will have an unwanted gap there. Next time you visit a Corvette show, look for a gap here and you will be looking at an improperly installed windshield.
Now as to the no POR usage...Could I use POR for everything and then use black epoxy primer for the part where the glue goes? As for the spacing, hopefully I can just reuse my glass and be on my way, but If I need, 3/8's it is!
Will
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 86
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From: STERLING ALASKA
I got my installation info from a classic restorer locally who didn't have time to do the job but was very informative on preparation. I did use POR 15 as a top coat after wire wheel down to bare metal. Shot a coat of PPG DP50 epoxy primer. The butyl tape is availabe in sizes
1/4" and up. The tape was laid around the inner border of the frame then a bead of urethane window sealant is laid next to the butyl tap adjacent but outboard. The urethane
caulk will show on the directions how to cut the plastic nozzel to produce a bead with a taller ribbon of sealant so that when the windshield is laid on the tape for spacing the ribbon is compressed for a complete seal this offers two chances to seal the glass to the frame.
1/4" and up. The tape was laid around the inner border of the frame then a bead of urethane window sealant is laid next to the butyl tap adjacent but outboard. The urethane
caulk will show on the directions how to cut the plastic nozzel to produce a bead with a taller ribbon of sealant so that when the windshield is laid on the tape for spacing the ribbon is compressed for a complete seal this offers two chances to seal the glass to the frame.