midigike

Dont forget too, that the more power you put through the stock rear end you may have to go big block half shafts. Who doesn't like a big burnouts from idle?

cv67

Get the one with the 210 heads, forget about the .4 in compression a head gasket can make that up or most of it.
ZZ4 heads need major work to really make some power.

gdh

That is a very nice engine for the $.

gbarmore

Hey Billa, I didn't know much (read nothing) when I started my frame off, but I knew enough not to make a Nova out of it. Everything on the car is getting the once over. If it spins, flips, rotates, slides, latches or so much as wiggles or shimmies, it's getting refurbished, rebuilt or replaced. It will be a very solid car when I'm finished working out all the bugs I inevitably introduced in this process.

I read at least one other post you put up talking about people that want big HP #'s but really have no baseline to compare them to or make the #'s 'relative'. I'm one of those people, sort of. I'm not going for the huge dyno #'s as you can probably see by my initial thoughts on a motor, just a nice seat-o-the-pants driver. I have almost no time behind a 300+HP car. A good friend of mine had a 290HP anniversary edition 350Z that we took out on track day at Road America a few years ago, it was a visceral experience. My Vette will probably never handle anywhere near as well as that car, but I use the power it had as my baseline for what I want to hit with my car and how I want it to feel at a minimum. Understanding that the power delivery of that motor will be very different than a 350SB, I figured the 385HP crate would get me close and give me room to grow.

Again, really appreciate your thoughts. That's what I meant when I said earlier that I appreciate your "practical" approach. I can spend a reasonable amount of money now and be very happy for quite a while before I decide that 500HP is my new target.

CWerner

I went through this dilema 4 years ago when I needed to replace my C2's engine. I went back and forth between 383, or a ZZ4. I ended up making the decision based upon $ and perceived equal value. I bought a rebuilt ZZ4 from a very good engine builder. Here are the specs he built it too: (Nice upgrades)



The engine dyno'd out to 418 hp, with a carb and full open headers. When we got it installed, I put a TPIS Miniram EFI on it, with shorty headers connected to a high performance 700R4 trany. The chassis dyno resulted in the following:



My corvette guy (not the engine builder) who did all of the work was pretty dissapointed in the results. We couldn't believe I was loosing 28% through the drivetrain. In the end, we realized that we were dealing with the limitations of the 350 and pushing it to it's limit. If I wanted to do some additional mods like cam and new heads, I would get much better. We concluded that the $1000 I saved with engine was a big mistake.... I'm still real happy with the modded ZZ4. It runs solid and has plenty of power. I still find my self wondering what the extra 30 to 50 hp would be like.

NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT. Go get a 383!

nonracer

I think your on the right track with your hp figure ( 425ish) since your looking for a nice driver,seat of the pants type power. Before I had the 385 fast burn engine in the Monte Carlo I had a custom built 406" that made just under 500hp & 493ft lbs on the engine dyno, the car was an absolutely blast to drive extremely fast and quick but the fast burn engine was more streetable and still as much fun to drive. If your rebuilding all your parts you shouldnt have an issue with breaking things just go a little overkill on the weak links. Ive installed a lot of different crate engines in all kinds of cars and have had no issues with the GM stuff.

63mako

It depends on what you want, where you want eventually end up and the $ you have now and then. You spend $6000 now then decide you want 500 Hp you will need a stroker crank and rods and change out the hyper pistons, new roller cam, roller rockers. A forged rotating assembly is close to $2000. The cam and rockers is another $700-$1000 plus removal, disassembly macine work, reassembly, installation and incidentals you will undoubtedly need. The next step up to 500 hp will cost you as much as your spending now and pretty much all your using is the block and heads. Guess the point I am tryinmg to make is that neither engine is a good base for a 500 HP engine and if that is where you want to end up spend a couple grand more now. If 400 hp and a 5800 RPM redline is you end goal buy the fastburn 385 HP.

ptroxx

I went with the ZZ4 crate... and now kinda wish I would have went with the ZZ383.
Now I want to go with teh cam package myself..
This is an awesome site with great info I may have to look more into this package
http://www.zz4build.com/ZZ4horsepower/zz4info.asp

Oh well live and learn... now getting ready to do OG 2004r..

Good luck and keep us up to date

billla

At < 300 RWHP you were at the "limit" of a 350? Nope.

More CID simply makes for a better HP/CID ratio. Costs go up as the ratio between HP and CID increases - 1 HP/CID is pretty reasonable, 1.2 is starting to get expen$ive and the curve goes geometric around 1.4 HP/CID. There is no replacement for displacement....but 300 RWHP is nowhere near the limit of a 350.

There are other benefits to a longer stroke, and I agree a 383 is virtually always a better choice than a 350...but a 350 is a happy, revvy beast with it's own benefits.

No "right" answers, just a lot of good choices. Great times for hotrodders

MakoShark72

Here's what I built...basically...

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Chev...8s/383-500.cfm

Jason Staley

This is a modified ZZ4 still with the ZZ4 cyl. heads
- GM "Hot Cam" ..... 0.545/0.545 lift cam
- home ported L98 heads (pocket ported and smoothed out a little)
- Manley race flow valves, springs, retainers
- AFR "rev kit" for roller cams
- Barry Grant carburator
- Full length headers w/ dual exhaust
- 8 qt. road racing oil pan

Here's the RWHP & TQ off a chassis dyno.


The three runs were from different tunes. I was running way lean when I did the first dyno run.

And the run I made at ORP drag strip following the new richer tune from the dyno tuning.

60' 1.92
1/8 8.3 @ 85 mph
1/4 12.8 @108 mph

corvettejockey

This going to lengthy, but good info. Are you ready?

Wow! I am glad I stumbled on this thread because I am, or was trying to decide whether to go with ZZ4 or the Fast Burn. I choose the fast burn. I have started this project 6 months ago and going at a pace that won’t hurt my pocket book, and check this out; my wife is encouraging to do so. I have always wanted a car with power but with the potential gas mileage. I have an 81 and it has the quadrajunk carb which in my opinion, the whole car was built around that stupid carb.
So this is where I started. I rebuilt the whole front end of the suspension and steering systems. I installed the VBP’s front composite monospring conversion which I did not like at all, so I purchased there coil springs which I am really happy I did so. The monospring was too choppy. I swapped it with a firmer spring, but I did not like that either. I need to sell that thing. I also removed the power steering junk and replaced it with a power steering box that eckler’s no longer sells, it replaced the power steering module. I liked it, but had the opportunity to purchase VBPs rack attack, which is one of the best investments I made. Sway bar is new and thicker and the light weight and A-arms, and Bilstein shocks. Front end taken care of.
Rear end time. I purchased the mono spring for the rear end and did not like that either, so I am going back to the leaf spring which is in my garage as well as the other parts I will be mentioning. I also bought the thicker rear anti-sway bar and the Smart Struts from VBP. I was doing some research on the trailing arms and found Eckler’s and VBPs to be really expensive since I would have to provide a core or to eat the $600 hundred dollar core charge since I was not ready to install the arms. This car is my every day driver. As I was trying to negotiate a better price with Eckler’s the tech gave me a tip. He told me to go to Ikerd’s since that was where Eckler’s got their trailing arms and they are brand new with a lifetime warranty and no core charge. I also purchased the bat wing that the differential will mount to. I got it powder coated, I also purchased new half shafts and had them powder coated as well. I go through Fullthrottlecorvette since they are a wholesaler, but they could not match Ikerd’s prices. The rear end system is costly, but I take advantage of holiday sales and make sure when ordering that you are a member of this forum and in most cases get a 10% discount. I then purchased a 700R4 level2 from Mad Dog Transmissions which is rated up to 500hp and comes with a free torque converter and free shipping, but it has to go to a place of business. O’Rielly auto parts was happy to accept it for me. Just make sure you tell them what horse power you are planning on so you can get the right converter, very important. I told the transmission sales person what I was planning on doing and he gave me an extra 6 month warranty on top of the 2 year warranty, by the way, I chose Mad Dog because a friend purchased one years ago and has done some heavy pulling with his truck and he loves it. I inquired about the yoke and was told that the TH350 yoke would work but to do myself a favor and purchase the yoke that the 700R4 uses since it has a longer spline to be able to take the hp. I purchased a new drive shaft and had that powder coated knowing that it would have to be cut and balanced for the longer 700R4. I talked with the business that coated it for me and they said they would re-coat it free of charge as they did the first coating of the drive shaft. Here is a tip for you guys. When purchasing products or powder coating, explain what you are trying to do and that your financial situation on your vehicle is month to month, in other words, a little bull ******** can go a long ways and the powder coating business saw the passion I had and told me had I explained what I was doing that they would discounted me on the half shafts and the bat wing. The differential is going to be the last component that I purchase because of a $400 dollar core charge. I really don’t want to eat that, oh hell no, that is a lot of money.
Now then let’s get back to the motor. I was looking at the Edelbrock crate Pro/Flo XT EFI motors. They are expensive, about 10 grand. I would have to get a loan for that and I could get it a bit cheaper if I go through a place of business to get it a bit cheaper than going directly with Edelbrock. As I was talking to an Edelbrock tech, he gave me a tip although he was not supposed to so, told me to purchase the Fast Burn and to get my car going and to break in the motor and later I could purchase the Edelbrock Pro/Flo XT EFI manifold system and may be the heads if I wanted. That will come later.
It comes with a handheld calibration module that can allow you to adjust the fuel ration to have a potential gas mileage motor and this can be adjusted on the fly. He told me that they use the GM ZZ4 block and they install the Edlebrock heads and EFI. So those are my intensions. Lets get back to the Differential. You must do the the gear ratio math because believe it or not, the dif is the heart of the drive train. This makes or breaks your power and potential gas mileage. My dif is currently 2:72 gear ratio which was stalk. I am replacing it with a 3:55 gear ratio. I could have gone to a 3:70, but that would hurt the gas mileage. The 3:55 will give me the power I want at 1st, 2nd and 3rd, but at 4th it will drop my RPMs to the same RPMs as I have with my TH350 3rd gear. Why am I talking good gas mileage in the same breath as I talk about HP? My 81 is great on gas mileage for a sports car, I can almost go 2 weeks on full tank, that is if I don’t put my pedal to the metal, but when I do, I see my gas gage move, but I still do when I want to. Like I mentioned, this is my everyday driver and I drive it to work 5 days out of the week. I am looking for the best of both worlds, now then I could go with a 3:70 diff gear ratio but that would not come close to the 3rd gear ratio that I currently have in my dif and as a result, gas mileage drops drastically, so do the math. There are some gear calculators on the web, also look up chevy transmission ratios and plug in the 3 ratios of the Th350 and the 4 ratios of the 700R4 and the ratio of the Diff and calculate it and it will give you the RPMs at let say 23 RPMs is when my car switches gears.

Like I mentioned I have been doing this parts at a time and I take advantage on the holidays and free shipping when offering. By the way, Valentines Day and the 4th are the best discounts offers, better than Christmas and New years. I also mentioned Fullthrottlecorvette. Give then an Eckler’s, Corvette Central, Mid America part number and they will look up the price and give you a significantly better price. I had ordered a part from Eckler’s and when I received the part I had noticed that the part number tag was not on the package very good and that underneath the tag was a company called Everything Corvette, so I went to their site and learned that it only sells to dealer, but their sister company Corvette Pacifica sells to every corvette owner and the prices are a hell of a lot lower than Eckler’s, Corvette Central and Mid America.

One more thing, I met a guy that owns a custom car shop and he told me to give him the part number of the ZZ4 of Jegs or Summit and he could get it for less since he has a business tax ID license. So if you have a friend with a business, you may want to go through that friend.

Sorry this was so lengthy, but I have done a lot of research and paid for it as well, but now I know. In summary, look at big picture. I too had a budget and blew through the roof, but in doing so, I learned a lot when buying parts. Check to see if you get a discount price if ordering on line, but I prefer to order over the phone and explain what you are doing and that you are a member here and if you get a membership discount, also, ask for additional discounts on top of that, what the hec, I have heard of the word ‘NO’ before, but I have gotten lucky, besides ordering via phone gives you a chance to tell your ******** sob story. Hey, sometimes it works. One more thing, go to youtube and search for Mad Dog Level 2 transmission, I was sold.

corvettejockey

For those of you who have installed a fastburn, do I have to get a different type of motor mount or will the orignial type work?

I have a simular question about the 700R4 tranny, I know I have to replace the bracket, but what does it look like. Is there a site that I can go to purchase an already made one.

I was told from the sale person at Ikerd's that the driveshaft will have to be cut exactly 3 inches shorter. Does anybody know if this is true?