Bonehead move on Thermostat
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,948
Likes: 72
From: Oxford MA-----You just lost the game!!!!
Just my opinion, but after trying other penetrating oils, including PB Blaster, I have found that Kroil does the best job. The aerosol version of Kroil is AeroKroil. Google on "Kano Labs", buy direct. Expensive, but worth every penny. Let it sit overnight, or even two days with reapplication.
As expressed above, heat is your friend. Welding the nuts on is the best bet. Without access to a welder, the nut style extractors may work with heat applied to the manifold. Even with welding on the nuts, gently heating the manifold with a torch right before attempting to back out the studs will expand the female hole, and loosen the grip on the studs. You will have to drain the AF before you apply heat.
As expressed above, heat is your friend. Welding the nuts on is the best bet. Without access to a welder, the nut style extractors may work with heat applied to the manifold. Even with welding on the nuts, gently heating the manifold with a torch right before attempting to back out the studs will expand the female hole, and loosen the grip on the studs. You will have to drain the AF before you apply heat.
Keep the shiny side up!
Scott
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 945
Likes: 10
From: Winston Salem NC
pb blaster or aerokroil and some time to penetrate. Whack them with a hammer after that. Vise Grips are a great idea. I have had good luck with a small (5") pipe wrench too. I would only go with helicoils if the bolt was flush with the intake.
The bolt extractors work well too. I have some but fortunately have not yet had to use them.
The bolt extractors work well too. I have some but fortunately have not yet had to use them.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,200
Likes: 3
From: Lehigh county Pennsylvania
Kroil, PB blaster, WD-40 whatever, the only recommendation is to let it soak. I'm surprised no one suggested tapping the bolt remains with a ball peen hammer to set up vibration to further the penetrating action.
I have found Snap-On (Blue-Point actually) 3/8" bolt extractor TFSY121 works well.
http://www.amdp.fr/OutillageIndustri...icher/id/17911
Especially on a 3/8" bolt that still has some threads showing. Works especially well on an impact wrench as the banging of the anvil sets up vibrations that tend to break the rust bonds.
Even if the aluminum strips out after the rusty bolts are removed, there's always helicoils.
EDIT: typing while jcloving made his post.
I have found Snap-On (Blue-Point actually) 3/8" bolt extractor TFSY121 works well.
http://www.amdp.fr/OutillageIndustri...icher/id/17911
Especially on a 3/8" bolt that still has some threads showing. Works especially well on an impact wrench as the banging of the anvil sets up vibrations that tend to break the rust bonds.
Even if the aluminum strips out after the rusty bolts are removed, there's always helicoils.
EDIT: typing while jcloving made his post.
Last edited by 69 Chevy; Apr 13, 2012 at 10:00 AM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 390
Likes: 1
From: Livonia MI
The cautions on using a torch right next to the fuel line are well taken. So I got a crazy idea. Instead of heating the manifold, why not try and cool the old studs? Maybe by holding a small piece of dry ice in top of the bolt, you could get enough of a temperature differential to break that bond.
Can't hurt, right?
Can't hurt, right?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,948
Likes: 72
From: Oxford MA-----You just lost the game!!!!
Kroil, PB blaster, WD-40 whatever, the only recommendation is to let it soak. I'm surprised no one suggested tapping the bolt remains with a ball peen hammer to set up vibration to further the penetrating action.
I have found Snap-On (Blue-Point actually) 3/8" bolt extractor TFSY121 works well.
http://www.amdp.fr/OutillageIndustri...icher/id/17911
Especially on a 3/8" bolt that still has some threads showing. Works especially well on an impact wrench as the banging of the anvil sets up vibrations that tend to break the rust bonds.
Even if the aluminum strips out after the rusty bolts are removed, there's always helicoils.
EDIT: typing while jcloving made his post.
I have found Snap-On (Blue-Point actually) 3/8" bolt extractor TFSY121 works well.
http://www.amdp.fr/OutillageIndustri...icher/id/17911
Especially on a 3/8" bolt that still has some threads showing. Works especially well on an impact wrench as the banging of the anvil sets up vibrations that tend to break the rust bonds.
Even if the aluminum strips out after the rusty bolts are removed, there's always helicoils.
EDIT: typing while jcloving made his post.
Keep the shiny side up!
Scott
Racer
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 355
Likes: 18
From: Corona Ca
Done the trick with a MIG welder a few times with good results, no nuts, just weld a glob on the end and grip with viceygrips. gotta get the broken bolt really hot, let cool, usually cooks out all of the corrosion and crud between the bolt and the surrounding metal and the bolt usually comes right out. Usually.
Learned and did this years ago when I worked at Raytheon building radar equipment on aluminum wave guides with broken off stainless screws. Really a pretty cool trick.
Definetly pull the manifold for safety's sake.
Tom
Learned and did this years ago when I worked at Raytheon building radar equipment on aluminum wave guides with broken off stainless screws. Really a pretty cool trick.
Definetly pull the manifold for safety's sake.
Tom
Racer
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 355
Likes: 18
From: Corona Ca
Oh, definetly if the intake is unimportant, throw it out. But if the offending intake is not replaceable...? Or if a correct casting date is important...?
I was more outlining a method that works on stuck bolts in different materials for use by anyone that has a MIG, or access to one. Last time I used it was on an OT MR2 Turbo motor that my friend had just installed. Got a damaged manifold stud out that would have required removing the head or motor. He was seriuosly jazzed.
Best,
Tom
I was more outlining a method that works on stuck bolts in different materials for use by anyone that has a MIG, or access to one. Last time I used it was on an OT MR2 Turbo motor that my friend had just installed. Got a damaged manifold stud out that would have required removing the head or motor. He was seriuosly jazzed.
Best,
Tom
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvette Engines RANKED by Peak Torque (70+ Years of Muscle!)
Joe Kucinski
Corvette ZR1X Will Be Pacing the Indy 500, And Could Probably Race, Too!
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvettes Coming to Mecum Indy 2026!
Brett Foote
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
From: McDonough GA
Looks like you have enough stud left to grab aholt and unscrew it
I'd limit my efforts on repairs to an hour then just go buy one and be done with it. Broken bolts, EZ outs, welding, back and forth to buy tools, etc. could turn it into a nightmare and you still wouldn't have improved anything. An aftermarket manifold will work better, look prettier and boost your self-esteem. "Always advance, never dig in." - Gen. George Patton.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,948
Likes: 72
From: Oxford MA-----You just lost the game!!!!
Why would you buy a new manifold when you have one that is most likely perfectly serviceable with a little work? Not all of us have a money tree out in the back yard, ya know. Soak it for a couple days with Kroil or something, heat the bolt red hot, let it cool down, apply a little heat around the bolt, smack it with a hammer a few times, and try to remove it with vise grips. If you don't have luck right away, take it off and let a pro take a crack at it. Cheaper than a new intake manifold. Unless you want a new intake, then buy a new intake.
And make it snappy, I want to know how this comes out!!
Keep the shiny side up!
Scott
And make it snappy, I want to know how this comes out!!
Keep the shiny side up!
Scott
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,948
Likes: 72
From: Oxford MA-----You just lost the game!!!!
The cautions on using a torch right next to the fuel line are well taken. So I got a crazy idea. Instead of heating the manifold, why not try and cool the old studs? Maybe by holding a small piece of dry ice in top of the bolt, you could get enough of a temperature differential to break that bond.
Can't hurt, right?
Can't hurt, right?
I'm just kidding, actually, although it does sound crazy, it really doesn't sound so crazy it just might work. Just, like, regular crazy. Anyway, what you're doing when you heat the crap out of the bolt, is hopefully making it expand a little, before the heat starts to expand the bolt hole, kind of squishing whatever crud is in there holding it. I think that's what makes the MIG method so effective, it's a lot of heat in a very short period of time. Then, once it's cool, apply a little heat around the bolt. What you're trying to do here is to expand the bolt hole, but not the bolt. There is probably not a whole lot that is keeping the bolt from turning, it may not take much to break it loose. Then again, it might. Won't know till you take a crack at it!
Keep the shiny side up!
Scott
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,117
Likes: 104
From: charlotte north carolina
i defintely want to know how this turns out. pardon me. but people are advising torches, dry ice, welding nuts on, vice grips, hammers, every thing except an atomic bomb.
if you took this manifold to a machine shop, how would they handle the problem? shoot a laser at it?! no, they'd drill it out and retap it. why? because it is the quickest, safest, most predictable technique. they don't want to have to buy you a new manifold when screw this one up.
if those studs are frozen tightly enough to snap the heads off, do you really think a pair of vise grips is going to move them? and if you drill out the bolt to use an extractor, what do you do when the super hard extractor breaks off in the bolt? you might as well just drill it out all the way and retap.
sorry, that's just my opinion, gained from rebuilding three of these rusty clunkers.
if you took this manifold to a machine shop, how would they handle the problem? shoot a laser at it?! no, they'd drill it out and retap it. why? because it is the quickest, safest, most predictable technique. they don't want to have to buy you a new manifold when screw this one up.
if those studs are frozen tightly enough to snap the heads off, do you really think a pair of vise grips is going to move them? and if you drill out the bolt to use an extractor, what do you do when the super hard extractor breaks off in the bolt? you might as well just drill it out all the way and retap.
sorry, that's just my opinion, gained from rebuilding three of these rusty clunkers.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,593
Likes: 103
From: Southern Indiana
I have done it before, just clamp the grips on the bolt and work back and forth and if they aren't bottomed out they will loosen up and come out.
Replacing the intake would be about as cheap as getting it fixed if you take it off.
A machine shop charges at least $35 an hour plus parts and the looks of the intake it probably needs bead blasted, that is another $25.
Now here is the tricky part, intake gaskets are $16.
That is $76.
This manifold is $107 out of Summit plus shipping.
But if you can get the bolts out of the old one without removing it your out a few$$$ and time and thats it.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 390
Likes: 1
From: Livonia MI
The winner of round one is.....
The bolts. Still frozen solid. Vice grips were ineffective. BP blaster let me down. Nut type bolt removers were ineffective and I wasn't going to apply more heat than I could get f rom a heat gun while the manifold was still on your car. ( I knew that wasn't going to be enough, but what the heck, it was worth a shot.)
So tomorrow the manifold comes off and I'll take it to my buddy's place. He has a torch and we can really get some heat on it. If they come put, we can media blast the manifold. If it only costs me a beer, I would like to keep the original intake. Otherwise, that piece above looked mighty tempting...
The bolts. Still frozen solid. Vice grips were ineffective. BP blaster let me down. Nut type bolt removers were ineffective and I wasn't going to apply more heat than I could get f rom a heat gun while the manifold was still on your car. ( I knew that wasn't going to be enough, but what the heck, it was worth a shot.)
So tomorrow the manifold comes off and I'll take it to my buddy's place. He has a torch and we can really get some heat on it. If they come put, we can media blast the manifold. If it only costs me a beer, I would like to keep the original intake. Otherwise, that piece above looked mighty tempting...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,948
Likes: 72
From: Oxford MA-----You just lost the game!!!!
I will give you a double-your-money-back guarantee that once you hit those bolts with the old blue wrench, they will come right out! 
Keep the shiny side up!
Scott
Keep the shiny side up!
Scott
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,781
Likes: 15
From: Oxford Ohio
Do none of the above. Doing this by hand will will likely end up ruining your manifold.
Get two. Nuts and place them over the existing broken stubs. Weld them to the studs. Allow them to cool. Apply a good rust penetrant and let it soak for a day. The heat from welding and the lube should allow them to break free.
Get two. Nuts and place them over the existing broken stubs. Weld them to the studs. Allow them to cool. Apply a good rust penetrant and let it soak for a day. The heat from welding and the lube should allow them to break free.
necessarily. It would just take a lot of caution to not damage it. The heat generated by the weld will help loosen the studs and or get lubricant to the threads.
If your welding skills aren't that good, drill and tap or helicoil. A time-sert (if you can find a kit with the correct tread) would be better than helicoil.
Remember when a bolt goes into aluminum, anti sieze is your friend.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,520
Likes: 11
From: Hinckley OH
Everybody who is suggesting heating the bolts is saying to let it cool. From watching muffler shops heat exhaust manifold bolts and take them off red hot with an inpact wrench that is what I have always done. Just don't pick up the nut or bolt for a long time. Are you recommending to let it cool because the intake manifold is aluminum?
Also, doesn't aluminum melt at a lower temperature than steel? Is it safe to use an Oxy-Acetelyne torch to heat those bolts?
Also, doesn't aluminum melt at a lower temperature than steel? Is it safe to use an Oxy-Acetelyne torch to heat those bolts?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
Since the manifold is coming off...a shop would probably charge you maybe $50 to fixture it in a drill press and professionally and correctly (straight, etc.) drill out the bolts and helicoil.
Even if the bolts come out, the threads are buggered and you'll still need to drill and helicoil...and you better get the holes straight. By the time you're all done screwing around a shop could have it done 10x over. I'm a DIY guy, but this is a time where a shop can do something quick and easy.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,609
Likes: 12
From: Massapequa Park NY
Good luck
Jim
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,008
Likes: 38
From: Space Coast Gator Territory
I can't resist throwing my 2 cents into the ring. Since you have an aluminum manifold, I would refrain from heating it because of the low melting point of aluminum. I also would only use a vise grip as a last resort, as continued teeth slipping on the broken stud will shave and weaken the remaining metal. Welding a nut to the top of the stud will concentrate heat to the target area. While still hot, apply candle wax to the base and let it cool. If your weld has good penetration, you will be able to use it to back the stud out with a wrench. This technique has worked for me several times, even with the most stubborn broken studs. Good luck!