Summit 1104 VS Voodoo 60102
04-21-2012, 10:44 PM
#41
Race Director
Now that's funny! 
I've been tempted to enter into the discussion but a couple of old sayings come to mind- the one about wrestling in the mud with a pig and...well, I'll just post a link about the other one-
http://www.simonpreacher.com/blog/su...e-with-a-fool/
I'm confident that the forum members have figured out who the real experts here are.
I've been tempted to enter into the discussion but a couple of old sayings come to mind- the one about wrestling in the mud with a pig and...well, I'll just post a link about the other one-http://www.simonpreacher.com/blog/su...e-with-a-fool/
I'm confident that the forum members have figured out who the real experts here are.
My saying is "you can't fight a battle of wits with an unarmed man."
04-21-2012, 11:09 PM
#42
Race Director
And while I'm at it I'd like to thank you for posting so much valuable and helpful info. You actually contribute positively here and I have no doubt that a lot of members have really learned from you. 
04-21-2012, 11:14 PM
#43
Race Director
04-21-2012, 11:33 PM
#44
Finally someone got that right Thank you!
Its not where you ship to but who it was for that counts.
I shipped an engine to new York this past Summer, but for who has to remain a mystery but I will say they have a "vette full of money"!
You would have to not care about yourself to go thru life as a lazy slob.
But that is the same way I feel about people who think they know how to build a car, I know im better at it when they start to criticize me but really they copy everything I do and call it their idea.
I get several PMs a day asking what will work for their car because they are tired of the same ole hum drum crowd and their slow under powered recommendations on this site ( you know who you are)
Its OK because as soon as the criticism starts I know im right and feel flattered by it. So thank you Mako63 for allowing me to show you some pointers and race tips, if you need some more help in the future just PM if your embarrassed to ask on the forum. Again thank you , thank you all!
Its not where you ship to but who it was for that counts.
I shipped an engine to new York this past Summer, but for who has to remain a mystery but I will say they have a "vette full of money"!
You would have to not care about yourself to go thru life as a lazy slob.
But that is the same way I feel about people who think they know how to build a car, I know im better at it when they start to criticize me but really they copy everything I do and call it their idea.
I get several PMs a day asking what will work for their car because they are tired of the same ole hum drum crowd and their slow under powered recommendations on this site ( you know who you are)
Its OK because as soon as the criticism starts I know im right and feel flattered by it. So thank you Mako63 for allowing me to show you some pointers and race tips, if you need some more help in the future just PM if your embarrassed to ask on the forum. Again thank you , thank you all!
Last edited by Little Mouse; 04-22-2012 at 02:33 AM.
04-22-2012, 12:21 AM
#45
Team Owner
Never understood the obsession with 'sound'? 
I can't even count how many cams I've replaced over the years that POs have installed because they 'sounded cool' but the car ran like crap- Usually WAY over-cammed for the application.
To each his own- I was into the sound thing about 30 years ago too but got tired of all the noise but no substance.
I can't even count how many cams I've replaced over the years that POs have installed because they 'sounded cool' but the car ran like crap- Usually WAY over-cammed for the application.
To each his own- I was into the sound thing about 30 years ago too but got tired of all the noise but no substance.
I will say as ci increases with roller cams that your 110's and less work when you are talking over 7000 rpm motors
04-22-2012, 02:02 AM
#46
I go everywhere looking like a slob 
Agreed. I really dig the C3s, even some C4s.
There is TOO much stuff in them that falls apart.
IMO just not wanted in a sports car.
Kinda kills it for me as that "little stuff" ie electrical/vaccum operated crap always goes bad. The old 60s and 70s cars were funner with nothing more than mayyybe power steering brakes and a stick popping up through the floorboard. Couple fuses not a big deal.
AC? Maybe for some.
They took away the power in the 70s had to offer something I guess
Now look at em. Yeah nice but geez own out of warranty ya better have a degree in electrical engineering/deep pockets.
Anyway back on topic.
Agreed. I really dig the C3s, even some C4s.
There is TOO much stuff in them that falls apart.
IMO just not wanted in a sports car.
Kinda kills it for me as that "little stuff" ie electrical/vaccum operated crap always goes bad. The old 60s and 70s cars were funner with nothing more than mayyybe power steering brakes and a stick popping up through the floorboard. Couple fuses not a big deal.
AC? Maybe for some.
They took away the power in the 70s had to offer something I guess
Now look at em. Yeah nice but geez own out of warranty ya better have a degree in electrical engineering/deep pockets.
Anyway back on topic.
Last edited by Little Mouse; 04-22-2012 at 02:35 AM.
04-22-2012, 04:16 PM
#47
Le Mans Master
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Been in a couple C5s. The frame is 500 percent stiffer then the C2/C3 no question the car is far better in quality then they ever where in the past. I can understand why someone could would want one. But to me the car is just to civilized has no soul. You can get in an old british sportscar a roadster with no roll up windows nothing but a 4 cylinder for power and its much more fun to drive then a newer vette it has soul.
Keep the shiny side up!
Scott
04-22-2012, 04:29 PM
#48
Le Mans Master
Way OT, but having owned a fair number of C2s and C3s and now a C5Z I'd say the C5 (at least in Z06 trim) is still pretty old-skool rowdy. If you don't think that, then you didn't drive it hard enough
04-22-2012, 05:03 PM
#49
Came up behind a C6 on my 650 enduro at a stop light it had a cam in it nothing real radical but very noticable. I started to get off the motorcycle shake his hand but figured the light would change. Theres some cams that are well known to make good power in them and they have the compression already built into them. Nice thing about them you can go on the cheap put in the cheapest fuel. The computer will simply retard the timing under load so it can not hurt anything power will just be a little down. Nice everyday driver plenty of creature comforts. I want my 66 back with no a/c, pb, ps, pw. I could buy at least three or four used C5s for what a 66 427/425 is worth.
I have two rich cousins in wichita a first cousin i have always known second cousin only met the one time. Both were in seperate aircraft business's the second cousin still has the charter planes. I met my first cousin ron in nevada mo. for my uncles funeral. He leaves a day earlier then me to go back to wichita. I tell him i will be there the next day. My cousin knows i had a new 69 Z/28. I come into town the next afternoon get ahold of one of his sisters she takes me on a tour of his business that he sold but still owns the building now leased out to the company that he sold to in 2006. So i call ron meet him at his mothers house then we go over to where he keeps around 40 classic cars. My second cousin who i have never met is setting there with a warmed up engine running 69 camaro. He says lets go for a ride. The car has a 585 BBC with dart big cheif heads single dominator. It really a pro streeted back half car with a roll cage. It has a spool, power glide. We pull out of the storage area ( my cousins own the buildings not rented ) He straitens it up tromps on it far as far as he can on the city street we did a few blocks. He has two simular engines in his offshore boat. Nice way to meet your second cousin lol.
I have two rich cousins in wichita a first cousin i have always known second cousin only met the one time. Both were in seperate aircraft business's the second cousin still has the charter planes. I met my first cousin ron in nevada mo. for my uncles funeral. He leaves a day earlier then me to go back to wichita. I tell him i will be there the next day. My cousin knows i had a new 69 Z/28. I come into town the next afternoon get ahold of one of his sisters she takes me on a tour of his business that he sold but still owns the building now leased out to the company that he sold to in 2006. So i call ron meet him at his mothers house then we go over to where he keeps around 40 classic cars. My second cousin who i have never met is setting there with a warmed up engine running 69 camaro. He says lets go for a ride. The car has a 585 BBC with dart big cheif heads single dominator. It really a pro streeted back half car with a roll cage. It has a spool, power glide. We pull out of the storage area ( my cousins own the buildings not rented ) He straitens it up tromps on it far as far as he can on the city street we did a few blocks. He has two simular engines in his offshore boat. Nice way to meet your second cousin lol.
Last edited by Little Mouse; 04-22-2012 at 06:14 PM.
04-23-2012, 12:44 AM
#51
If your trans is stock 80 model. 1980 L/48 cars came with extremely wide ratio trans and you have non performance 3.07/3.08 rear gearing. So your going to need a low duration cam that will still pull down lower in rpm and a wide LSA to help lengthen out or widen the power band. The down side to wide ratio splits is bigger rpm drops between gears. Stay away from tighter LSA cams 110 and lower.
It looks like you bought the vortec iron summit head only one i see with 67cc chambers.
For your combination i would do the voodo 60102. But your going to have to use the right springs for it.
The summit vortec head is using the original 1.250 dia. size springs that can handle .520 lift. But that does not meen the springs are up to the job.
Your other option is to go for less performance out of the older tech slower ramp rate summit cam, would use the the lower duration 1103. The 1104 with its 224 .050 duration is past what your compression with 67 chambers and dished pistons can use and the rpm range is starting out to high for your poor gearing. In the case of the 1103 cam the springs that come on the head would easely do the job.
No doubt the voodo cam will out perform the summit cam.
In the end you have to make the decision.
It looks like you bought the vortec iron summit head only one i see with 67cc chambers.
For your combination i would do the voodo 60102. But your going to have to use the right springs for it.
The summit vortec head is using the original 1.250 dia. size springs that can handle .520 lift. But that does not meen the springs are up to the job.
Your other option is to go for less performance out of the older tech slower ramp rate summit cam, would use the the lower duration 1103. The 1104 with its 224 .050 duration is past what your compression with 67 chambers and dished pistons can use and the rpm range is starting out to high for your poor gearing. In the case of the 1103 cam the springs that come on the head would easely do the job.
No doubt the voodo cam will out perform the summit cam.
In the end you have to make the decision.
Last edited by Little Mouse; 04-23-2012 at 02:41 AM.
04-23-2012, 12:05 PM
#52
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Thanks for that post Little Mouse. So the 1104 is out. I guess if I pull the trigger on this I should get the max benifit and get the Voodoo and the correct springs although the 1103 would be a lot cheaper route.
My heads are not the vortec heads. I have these: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-152123/
When I bought them they advertised them as 67cc, but now they list them as 72cc.
I know this is hard to answer, but just how much better would the Voodoo be compared to the 1103?
My heads are not the vortec heads. I have these: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-152123/
When I bought them they advertised them as 67cc, but now they list them as 72cc.
I know this is hard to answer, but just how much better would the Voodoo be compared to the 1103?
Last edited by Camss57; 04-23-2012 at 09:34 PM.
04-23-2012, 02:15 PM
#53
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '05
Please, trust me and the guys here.
Use the Voodoo.
More responsive, torquey better vaccum etc.
Ive used it myself and was real pleased with it. Made better power than I thought it would put it that way.
Now burn up that plastic and order
Use the Voodoo.
More responsive, torquey better vaccum etc.
Ive used it myself and was real pleased with it. Made better power than I thought it would put it that way.
Now burn up that plastic and order
04-23-2012, 02:46 PM
#54
Thanks for that post Little Mouse. So the 1104 is out. I guess if I pull the trigger on this I should get the max benifit and get the Voodoo and the correct springs although the 1103 would be a lot cheaper route.
My heads are not the vortec heads. I have these: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-152123/
When I bought them they advertised them as 67cc, but know they list them as 72cc.
I know this is hard to answer, but just how much better would the Voodoo be compared to the 1103?
My heads are not the vortec heads. I have these: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-152123/
When I bought them they advertised them as 67cc, but know they list them as 72cc.
I know this is hard to answer, but just how much better would the Voodoo be compared to the 1103?
Yrs ago i just read an article on a comp cam extreme another fast rate cam that was tested against a 350/350 hp chevy cam. If i remember right it was there 268 advertised cam a slightly less .050 duration cam then the the 350/350. They showed 50 hp more. To be honest i don't really believe the test. You can put anything down in print if it had been a hydraulic roller ya i could buy it. So if just another flat tappit adds 50hp what does the hydraulic roller add on its own no other changes, 75/80 hp. This was a time period when comp had just came out with the extreme series cam. They have massive advertising dollars in all the magazines. My bet the 50 hp figure " to push there new product for them ". The old saying liars lie and cheaters cheat when lots of money in sales can be had. Look inside any magazine its chocked full of either edelbrock or comp cams advertising. There palms were well greased for a new product line.
A friend of mine is building a four wheel drive pickup. Will never really be used as one. Powder coated frame, $6500.00 in the paint job going to be a show truck. He bought one of my blocks and two steel cranks built a 427 bbc for it. He asked me what cam. He now has a lunati voodo. The person that designed it for lunati is one of the most respected cam grinders out there.
Your going to have to make up your own mind on money spent. But you can't just buy whats the cheapest rout and expect the best performance.
Assuming they make a 1.250 dia size behive spring that works well with the voodo cam. Thats your best rout. The behive spring is light does not even need a damper spring. It uses a very light retainer and it can do more with less pressure applied. Your going to run a flat tappit the less pressure applied on cam lifters the better it is for both.
I would call lunati tell them you have a 1.250 spring pocket and the voodo cam your interested in. Tell them you would prefer a behive spring. This is of course if your willing to spend the money. If not i would use the 1103 over the 1104.
If you use the excepted standard that every 10 degree added to intake duration moves the power band upward 500 rpm on a 350 chevy. Heres where your at. Your old cam had 195 .050 intake duration the 1104 has 224. You can see thats a 1500 rpm rise before the cam even begins to kick in. Also with your dished pistons and some help with the 67 chamber you still don't have enough compression to support the cam well make it work. The old 350hp cam had 222 .050 duration and with the 11.00 compression pistons it worked well in the rpm range it was ment for. You pull more then two points of compression out from under it. its not the same cam it was lol.
Keep in mind whats behind the engine. You put in strictly a mid range rpm cam " 1104 " without even the compression to even help it. Then throw in 3.08 gearing you screwed yourself up.
Last edited by Little Mouse; 04-23-2012 at 04:42 PM.
04-23-2012, 05:02 PM
#55
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These are the springs Lunati lists for the cam: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-73943LUN/
So will these work with my heads? Can I just get the springs and use my old retainers? I have never changed out valve springs, so sorry for the basic questions.
So will these work with my heads? Can I just get the springs and use my old retainers? I have never changed out valve springs, so sorry for the basic questions.
04-23-2012, 05:09 PM
#56
Race Director
These guys are steering you right. Burn a call to Lunati Tech support. Tell them the installed height of your springs, spring pocket size and that you want the Voodoo 60102 and you want their beehive springs and required hardware to fit your heads and valve length that will work with their 60102 cam. That way you get what works with no issues. The spring you referenced have an installed height of 1.750. If the beehives are out of your price range they have a -.050 retainer that will work with those springs and your current setup if you have a 1.700 installed height now. You might have a .050 shim under the existing springs you could remove and everything you have might work with just a spring change. Would have to see what you have to determine what to do. You have to get this right for the cam to live.
Last edited by 63mako; 04-23-2012 at 05:28 PM.
04-23-2012, 05:41 PM
#57
The head you bought pretty certain has a 1.250 spring pocket. Its the very basic head going to have standard length valves. You can figure on a 1.70 or 1.75 install height.
Call lunati let them put you into a behive spring and the retainers it needs. You have an 11/32 valve stem.
1.266 dia. spring you listed.
Call lunati let them put you into a behive spring and the retainers it needs. You have an 11/32 valve stem.
1.266 dia. spring you listed.
Last edited by Little Mouse; 04-23-2012 at 05:56 PM.
04-23-2012, 05:41 PM
#58
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These guys are steering you right. Burn a call to Lunati Tech support. Tell them the installed height of your springs, spring pocket size and that you want the Voodoo 60102 and you want their beehive springs and required hardware to fit your heads and valve length that will work with their 60102 cam. That way you get what works with no issues. The spring you referenced have an installed height of 1.750. If the beehives are out of your price range they have a -.050 retainer that will work with those springs and your current setup if you have a 1.700 installed height now. You might have a .050 shim under the existing springs you could remove and everything you have might work with just a spring change. Would have to see what you have to determine what to do. You have to get this right for the cam to live.
Last edited by Camss57; 04-23-2012 at 07:48 PM.
04-23-2012, 06:04 PM
#59
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '09
I was looking at the Summit 1103 but installed the Lunati 60102 based on the input from the forum here. I don't have anything to compare it to other than the crappy cam I pulled out, but I grin ear-to-ear everytime I drive my car now. I know it's not a rocket ship (yet), but I'm extremely happy with the recommendation. It's made my car fun to drive while I work on getting a roller cammed block.
04-23-2012, 06:22 PM
#60
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I was looking at the Summit 1103 but installed the Lunati 60102 based on the input from the forum here. I don't have anything to compare it to other than the crappy cam I pulled out, but I grin ear-to-ear everytime I drive my car now. I know it's not a rocket ship (yet), but I'm extremely happy with the recommendation. It's made my car fun to drive while I work on getting a roller cammed block.