Zink Additives ??
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,873
Likes: 27
From: Sonora CA
Zink Additives ??
Has anyone used the zinc additive "ZDDPlus"
Is this just another snake oil thing, or is it as they, (the manufacturer)
claim?
(sorry for the mis-spelling) ...corrected
Is this just another snake oil thing, or is it as they, (the manufacturer)
claim?
(sorry for the mis-spelling) ...corrected
Last edited by imariver; Apr 21, 2012 at 09:21 AM. Reason: mis-spell
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 65
From: Wauconda IL
Not sure about Zink but there are a LOT of threads out here regarding Zinc additives. 
Most people seem to have a love/hate attitude about them. Many swear by it and may swear NOT to buy it!
I've used it in all my flat tappet engines and have not had any issues thus far. Now if that's luck or because it's actually doing something, I can't tell you.
All I know is (knock on wood), I've never lost a cam lobe yet...
Elm
Most people seem to have a love/hate attitude about them. Many swear by it and may swear NOT to buy it!
I've used it in all my flat tappet engines and have not had any issues thus far. Now if that's luck or because it's actually doing something, I can't tell you.
All I know is (knock on wood), I've never lost a cam lobe yet...
Elm
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,116
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From: Livonia MI
Modern oil formulations are highly engineered products, and I never add anything to them. It's true modern oils are formulated wtih lower zinc content, and really a government mandated deal, as ring blowby gasses cotaining certain trace compounds can damage cat converters over time. Older flat tappet engines prefer a bit more zinc and phosphate, so oils like Valvoline VR-1 race or Joe Gibbs would be better choices than throwing more stuff in later. Member "Billla" has a list on recommended oils.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
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From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
Every oil manufacturer recommends against additives. They can cause "additive clash", where the chemical makeup of the oil's additive package and the aftermarket don't work correctly together as they weren't designed to work together...and can cause unexpected problems.
Summary: If you use a flat-tappet cam run an oil from this list or another oil you're sure has at least 1000 ppm ZDDP. No additives (other than for break-in), no diesel oils, no racing oils and no miracle cures - just the right oil.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...ppet-oils.html
Summary: If you use a flat-tappet cam run an oil from this list or another oil you're sure has at least 1000 ppm ZDDP. No additives (other than for break-in), no diesel oils, no racing oils and no miracle cures - just the right oil.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 65
From: Wauconda IL
I do not question your research and expertise and I respect your knowledge but I do tend to question the manufacturers claims/warnings.
Have any of these companies actually documented what happens when this stuff is added? My guess is they are avoiding any liability if something goes wrong but aren't really doing any testing to confirm otherwise as its expensive and not in their best interest.
I'm not stating in any way shape or form that the additive helps or hurts anything- I'm just saying I don't know and I'm not sure any of these companies really know either.
I see this in all different industries- Their are too many variables and options to test and validate every single one so it's more prudent to just say NO.
Again, I'm not looking to argue with anyone, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate
Elm
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
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From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Every oil manufacturer recommends against additives. They can cause "additive clash", where the chemical makeup of the oil's additive package and the aftermarket don't work correctly together as they weren't designed to work together...and can cause unexpected problems.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...ppet-oils.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...ppet-oils.html
100%. The additive might work fine with one oil and cause problems with another. Additive clash is a real issue that is difficult to predict as the oil additive packages are not listed, different for every oil, even oils by the same manufacturer and change frequently. Best bet is a high quality oil designed with the correct additive package to work in your engine. There are plenty to choose from.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 409
Likes: 3
From: St. James, NC
A couple of years back, I tried a Zinc additive in my LS5. Over time the engine developed a tick in a couple of lifters. Before going through the hassle of replacing the lifters, I changed the oil using a synthetic (Mobil 1 with the correct level of zinc), the thought process being if the additive was causing a build-up, a good synthetic oil would clean it out. Over a short time, the tick went away with the Mobil 1, and the engine seemed to run livelier immediately upon changing to the Mobil. There are more than a few oils available with the correct amount of zinc. Given the availability, I wouldn’t waste my money on additives; I would just use correctly formulated oil. Current I am using AMSOIL Premium Protection (Full Synthetic) 10w-40. It has enough zinc, but has lower viscosity than the Mobil 1 (15w-50). I switched to get flow better.
A lot of opinions on the subject, just my two cents.
A lot of opinions on the subject, just my two cents.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
I do tend to question the manufacturers claims/warnings.
Have any of these companies actually documented what happens when this stuff is added? My guess is they are avoiding any liability if something goes wrong but aren't really doing any testing to confirm otherwise as its expensive and not in their best interest.
Have any of these companies actually documented what happens when this stuff is added? My guess is they are avoiding any liability if something goes wrong but aren't really doing any testing to confirm otherwise as its expensive and not in their best interest.
But...OTOH, do you want to test how it works in your engine? Especially given that there are oils readily available from major vendors specifically designed for the application?
That's where I get stuck with "experimentation" with additives, diesel oils, motorcyle oils and aviation oils - I just fail to see the point when the right oils are easy to get.
It's good thinking and a good question
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,873
Likes: 27
From: Sonora CA
Ok, so I guess if it's too good to be true........ then it isn't.
For the product in question, (ZDDPlus) their webb-site makes a good argument, but then again, they're trying to sell their product too.
My L-48 is numbers matching, and never been apart. It has well over 100,000 miles on it and I use it as my DD. I'm also planning a several hundred mile trip with it next weekend.
Guess I'm just getting paranoid
Thanks for all the good advice and comments.
Steve
For the product in question, (ZDDPlus) their webb-site makes a good argument, but then again, they're trying to sell their product too.
My L-48 is numbers matching, and never been apart. It has well over 100,000 miles on it and I use it as my DD. I'm also planning a several hundred mile trip with it next weekend.
Guess I'm just getting paranoid
Thanks for all the good advice and comments.
Steve
Racer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
From: Holmen Wisconsin
This is what I have been using for oil in my 80. Don't know if it can be added to the list or not?
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/gener...tentId=7032644
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/gener...tentId=7032644
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,727
Likes: 38
From: Fremont CA
Joe Gibbs Hot Rod oil (also makes it for Comp Cams and Edelbrock from what I am told), Brad Penn oil, Amsol classic car oils, any of these is cheaper and more proven than brewing your own.
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
why mess with additives. I use valvoline VR1 10w30 in my rebuilt 350.
i called valvolines 800 tech number to double check and was told VR1 has 1400 ppm on zinc and phos. my engine builder told me not to use synths. because the are too slippery and don't allow the tappets to turn.
i called valvolines 800 tech number to double check and was told VR1 has 1400 ppm on zinc and phos. my engine builder told me not to use synths. because the are too slippery and don't allow the tappets to turn.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,873
Likes: 27
From: Sonora CA
If You don't have anything constructive to say, (and YOU, usually don't)
............... GET LOST!!!!!
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
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"There's tons of oils available that already have an acceptable additive package, including adequate zinc (not zink)."
How would I or others know if you were aware of that? If you are upset over the correction of zink vs. zinc- a simple misspelling can throw off search results completely, which I presume you did.
As other have advised, f*rting around with additives is not a good idea and is exactly why the manufacturers caution against.
If I was looking for points for my Mr. Nasty Award, I would have simply posted the beating a dead horse smilie. Hope you have a nice weekend.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2011
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From: North of Toronto - Ontario
If your interested or concerned about the contents of the different oils and what they might or might not mean to the flat tappet and high pressure valves, there is a site called Bob is the Oil Guy where there is tonnes of info and opinions on various oil topics.
Personally I run Mobile 1, not as thin as I'd normally use, wish I could get syntec but it doesn't seem to be available up here. The target seems to be 1200+. I did use a break-in oild for the motor and it seems to me it was in the 1600+ range or something out there. I'd probably run the additive if I couldn't get it in the oil straight.
Read up, don't drink the kool-aid, grain of salt, choose wisely.
Mooser
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
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From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
Keep in mind that as engines age, the already light stock springs can end up having significantly less their rated pressure. So an oil that may work on a 100K mile engine may not support an engine with newer and/or stiffer valvesprings.
I had an email into Castrol about this change - but it looks like this should be on the list and will be. Thanks!
If it's not the 15W-50, then it's SM/SN certified and doesn't have sufficient ZDDP.
Synthetic, if you're willing to spend the money, is the very best oil you can use in a GEN I SBC. Flat-tappets spin due to the convex face of the lifter and an angle on the cam lobe. It's going to spin no matter what oil is in it 
This is what I have been using for oil in my 80. Don't know if it can be added to the list or not?
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/gener...tentId=7032644
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/gener...tentId=7032644
I had an email into Castrol about this change - but it looks like this should be on the list and will be. Thanks!
If it's not the 15W-50, then it's SM/SN certified and doesn't have sufficient ZDDP.
Last edited by billla; Apr 21, 2012 at 06:17 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2011
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From: North of Toronto - Ontario
, cold pressure is a touch higher than I'm used to, warm it's fine. Been running it for several years now, never had any problems, just brand loyal to syntec on everything else I own
Mooser
Racer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
From: Holmen Wisconsin
No problem billla! Make sure you guys get the "new" formula if you get this oil. My Advance Auto had the old formula on the self, but got me the new formula from another store. I bought 15 quarts. They had it on special for $29.99 for 5 quarts with a filter.
Last edited by Camss57; Apr 21, 2012 at 07:04 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,874
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From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
i'm with the rest of the guys...theres enough engineered oils out there to meet our needs no need to do anything other then buy what we need. with the exception of the rear end additive i cant think of any additives that are really helpful at the moment. i am a valovine vr1 fan but last oil change i went to the mobil 1 15w-50 to try something else
Last edited by bobs77vet; Apr 21, 2012 at 07:20 PM.