Hi, guys,
I am planning some engine work in the future, (I know, I know, you can't very well plan things in the past, ya wiseasses!!) and would like to know if there is a source of info on what the best products are for different engine assembly jobs. For instance, what is the best sealant for head bolts? What is the best adhesive to use for intake manifold gaskets? What is the best RTV to use for valve cover, timing chain, etc., what is the best assembly lube for bearings, camshaft, etc.. If I could see all of this info in one place, that would be great. Maybe someone should do a sticky on the subject?


Keep the shiny side up!
Scott

 

Everybody always ignores me when I say this, but I'm gonna say it again anyway...

The absolute BEST commercially-available multi-purpose sealant that I have found- and I have tried them ALL- is Permatex GRAY Hi-Temp RTV. The only thing that I have found that exceeds it is MIL-S-8802 polysulfide aircraft fuel tank sealant. You can't buy it, and I'd get fired if anybody caught me with it in my garage.

THAT SAID, and presuming you want to know how to put your engine back together with stock/OEM parts (i.e., sheetmetal valve covers), DO NOT use RTV on your VALVE COVERS . For the oil pan, glue the gasket to the block rails with a THIN bead of 3M Weatherstrip Cement (popularly called 'Gorilla Snot') after carefully trimming the corners with a razor to make them properly fit into the end seals, then run a thin (about 1/8") bead of RTV around the pan rail. For the valve covers, glue the gaskets onto the covers after making sure they are straight and flat, and don't use any more glue than you need to hold the gasket in place- that's all the glue is there for; to keep the gasket from moving around. Don't overtighten the bolts, either- just snug them down enogh to eliminate any gap between the covers and the head rails. Same for the oil pan- if you see the gasket beginning to distort or pinch, stop tightening.

As for the intake, I like to use a very thin bead of the RTV around both sides of each intake port; a little more around the water ports, and that's with plain paper-type gaskets. If you use Fel-Pro gaskets with the silicone beads embossed onto them the gaskets will get confused when you start smearing that RTV on everything. I like to use the cheap paper ones and do the sealing myself. Then dispense with the useless rubber end seals and put a generous bead along each end rail on the block and the intake before you set it down. You'll probably want to 'mock everything up' first before applying sealant so you can get an idea of exactly how much RTV you'll need to fill those gaps.

The gray RTV will work as thread sealer, too, but #2 Permatex is probably better since it sticks to oily threads better and it's hard to get threads perfectly clean. Use gray RTV on the timing cover, water pump, and thermostat housing. Do this, be patient, be careful and methodical and your motor WILL NOT LEAK. GUARAN-DAMN-TEED.

 

Smokey Yunik liked to use MOLYKOTE G-N METAL ASSEMBLY PASTE on friction surfaces - cam, bearings, rockers.

cardo0

 

Everyone will have their own favorites, and like opinions everyone's got one. I have no idea if my answers qualify as 'the best' but each has worked well for me for a very long time.

 

The permatex #2 on the head bolts seems to be a pretty common recommendation, probably a safe bet. I saw a video of a sbc assembly where the guy said to dip the threads in clean engine oil, but if you buy new head bolts, they usually come with sealant already on the threads, that tells me the threads really need to have some sort of sealant.

Is the Edelbrock gaskacinch anything like the old Indian Head gasket shellac? Man, I used to swear by that stuff back in the day, I'd put it on everything!

I thought the GM EOS was a break-in additive, you can use it as an assembly lube? What do you do, use it to assemble the parts and then dump what's left into the lifter valley before you put the oil in?

Birdsmith recommends Permatex GRAY Hi-Temp RTV specifically, whereas 69chevy just recommends permatex hi-temp rtv in general, so I'll just call that a match. Birdsmith is apparently an aircraft mechanic, I'm thinking maybe a helicopter mechanic, and if your aircraft's engine conks out, you can't just pull over and call AAA. More likely, you crash and die screaming.They have some pretty high standards to meet, so his recommendation carries some weight with me. I appreciate the advice so far, please keep it coming if you have some preferences.


Keep the shiny side up!
Scott

 

Yep, everyone's got their favorites - maybe not because they're the "best"...but just because they've worked for them. No wrong answers with any of the mainstream, brand-name products.

Here's my list:

General assembly lube: Lubriplate #105
http://www.lubriplate.com/products/g...ly-grease.html

Cam and high-pressure lube: CompCams Cam and Lifter Installation Lube
http://www.compperformancegroupstore...&Category_Code=

RTV: Permatex The Right Stuff Gasket Maker
http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...sket_Maker.htm

Thread sealant: Permatex High Temperature Thread Sealant
http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...ad_Sealant.htm

Gasket adhesive: Edelbrock Gasgacinch
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...ets/misc.shtml

Thread Locker: Permatex Threadlocker Blue, Red and Green
http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...eadlockers.htm

Anti-Seize: Permatex Anti-Seize
http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...ubricant_a.htm

I also mix up 2 qts of Valvoline straight 30wt with 1 pint of GM Engine Oil Suppliment (EOS) for any other general lubrication, which ends up in the sump along with another 3 quarts of 30wt.

 

You're right about the aircraft mech part, Scott...on military aircraft we don't use anything (anymore) that is commercially available, and on Navy aircraft nearly all the airframe components are sealed with the aforementioned MIL-S-8802 sealer. It is a 2-part mix and it is paractically impervious to anything. If I could get that stuff for building engines I would buy a case of it, but unfortunately there's nothing like it available in stores.

The closest alternative that I have found is the gray RTV. I have tried them all-black, blue, red, clear, copper, etc., etc., and for some reason the gray stuff just plain works better. It resists heat and solvent way better than any of the other ones and it STICKS to stuff better than any of the others as well.

I have used #2 Permatex ("baby sh*t") for water pumps, thermostats, etc. but after all tyhese years I have sttled on the gray RTV for everything but thread sealer, which the #2 seems to be very well suited for.

I also have a SB Ford that head an annoying (and expensixve) penchant for repeatedly blowing head gaskets, and the last time I put THAT motor back together I put a tiny beaed of gray RTV around each of the water holes between the heads and decks- problem solved.

 

There seems to be a lot of mention of the brand name Permatex. Is the permatex really better than other brand names? I'm putting together an order from Summit Racing, and would like to include this stuff in it, but summit doesn't seem to acknowledge Permatex, they sell Loctite brand stuff. Would the Loctite brand gray rtv be an acceptable substitute? Or should I make the effort to obtain Permatex brand stuff? If so, where is a good place to order Permatex from?

On a separate subject, but one still concerning gaskets, what is your take on carb base gaskets? Leave 'em dry? Gasgacinch? RTV?

Ya know, I have to say, I really thought this thread might turn out to be like one of those "What oil should I use?" threads, with people falling all over themselves to argue with each other, I happy that hasn't happened........yet..........(cue ominous background music.)


Keep the shiny side up!
Scott

 

I`ve always used "Aviation Form A Gasket", also a Permatex product.
Supposed to be good for gas, oil, or water, so I use it on everything, never had a problem with it.

 

Yes the gray rtv is great, Make sure to clean the mateing surfaces well. I use non chlorinated brake clean and a clean rag. NEVER apply rtv to a cork gasket as the move with temp and the rtv will glue them to the surface. Good luck.

 

Can you really use it for everything? That would be convenient.


Keep the shiny side up!
Scott

 

I'm not really aware of how well any of Loctite's sealers work. Pretty much all of the different silicone/RTV sealers I ever used were from Permatex and purchased at local parts stores. I happen to live close to an Autozone so that's where I buy the stuff now, and as I said before there is a noticeable difference in how well the Permatex gray RTV works and anything else I've used.

Again, as kkperformance emphasized, keep it away from cork- it defeats the purpose of having a cork gasket in the first place, which absorbs the oil.

 

I'm not sure I understand the bit about the cork gasket absorbing the oil. Will that make the RTV come unstuck from the cork?


Keep the shiny side up!
Scott

 

Surprisingly Ford dealerships sell a really good gray RTV. That is what I use on everything.

 

You asked about sealants for a water cooled engine. How many of those are in aircraft? So don't equate a product having 'aviation' in its name or nomenclature as superior.

 

In the end, it's for a different application...and it just means it's probably 10x the cost and has 10x the paperwork

But again as noted - folks use what works for them, and if it works for them chances are it'll work for you...no wrong answers.

 

I agree, the aviation world is one of very specific specifications, especially the military, which is a very bureaucratic organization. In the military, the reason for doing something a certain way can range from "Our boys deserve the best!" to "That's what it says in the Technical Manual......".

On the other hand, just because it says aviation on the label shouldn't automatically prohibit it's use in automotive applications, either, should it?

I'm thinking about just getting a bottle of Indian Head gasket shellac, and a tube of Yamabond. I used to use Indian Head on everything, back in the day, and it worked great! And my brother is a motorcycle mechanic, he raves about Yamabond. It's just been a long time since I've really had to do this kind of thing, and was wondering what was new and exiting in the world of sealing up engines. The Permatex aviation #3 sounds intrigueing, as it is advertised as being gas, oil and coolant resistant, non-hardening, slow drying, sounds like you really could use it for almost everything.


Keep the shiny side up!
Scott

 

Ok i looked it up from "Power Secrets" for the camshaft. Try "Extreme Pressure Lube #3" at: http://www.manleyperformance.com/dl/...e_building.pdf or: http://www.readytool.com/CMD.htm.

Good luck,
cardo0