C3 Tech/Performance V8 Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine, Basic Tech and Maintenance for the C3 Corvette
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Front brakes dragging

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old May 7, 2012 | 12:05 AM
  #41  
Peterbuilt's Avatar
Peterbuilt
Le Mans Master
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,419
Likes: 1,555
From: mount holly NC
2025 c3 ('74-'82) of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2019 C3 of Year Finalist (appearance mods)
Default

Originally Posted by Mike Ward
Two separate circuits, two separate reservoirs, two separate relief ports, two separate sets of seals on the M/C piston. The only place the two systems 'touch' is in the manifold on opposite sides of a piston. If there's not enough differential pressure and flow to push the piston aside and turn the warning light on, then the rears are not affected.
Does this picture help?
Reply
Old May 7, 2012 | 12:51 AM
  #42  
Mike Ward's Avatar
Mike Ward
Race Director
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Default

Yes it does, thanks!
Reply
Old May 7, 2012 | 02:08 AM
  #43  
oldalaskaman's Avatar
oldalaskaman
Le Mans Master
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,272
Likes: 17
Default

based on that pic, if there's an issue with the fronts , there should also be an issue with the rears, based on the op's description , its common to both fronts, but not the rears.



something that hasnt been asked in this thread is what problems the op was having with his brakes prior to changing those parts. "If"....he was having similar issues prior to changing the parts, all of you folks gave excellent answers, this has been an interesting thread. many thanks to all of you for posting

Last edited by oldalaskaman; May 7, 2012 at 02:42 AM.
Reply
Old May 7, 2012 | 07:56 AM
  #44  
noonie's Avatar
noonie
Race Director
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,112
Likes: 28
From: Florida
Default

Originally Posted by oldalaskaman
based on that pic, if there's an issue with the fronts , there should also be an issue with the rears, based on the op's description , its common to both fronts, but not the rears.



something that hasnt been asked in this thread is what problems the op was having with his brakes prior to changing those parts. "If"....he was having similar issues prior to changing the parts, all of you folks gave excellent answers, this has been an interesting thread. many thanks to all of you for posting
That's the normal place to start, especially since "amount of drag" is subjective.

At this point, the easiest way to check the master, is to look into the reservoir while someone else pushes the pedal slowly. You should be able to see the piston seals move by and return past the compensation ports and physically see if they are returning all the way (or probe with a wire). The op said the master was changed by the previous owner, so assuming it's relatively new, I doubt the pistons are not returning, unless filled with a oil product to drastically swell the seals. The springs are very, very strong. Having a master rod too long will cause this, but the OP already dismissed it.
You may also look for a residual valve installed in error in the front port, stranger things have happened.

A word on Orings.
Depending on how the piston groove was machined, it might or might not need the return springs. At the very least, the crush tolerance for oring calipers are much tighter than the original and the combination of the two could lead to more drag.
The oring distorts on application and returns to normal in brake release, different than the oem seals. The oring pistons I use don't use the springs, but I believe VP style uses them for their pistons. You can't tell unless you took them apart.

Rebuilt masters are only 30 bucks or so and new are only 50.
Since you're more inquisitive, here are a couple pics of a c3 master I cut apart.



Reply
Old May 7, 2012 | 07:58 AM
  #45  
oldalaskaman's Avatar
oldalaskaman
Le Mans Master
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,272
Likes: 17
Default

excellent tech.many thanks, bob
Reply
Old May 7, 2012 | 11:03 AM
  #46  
72 corvette roadster's Avatar
72 corvette roadster
Thread Starter
Advanced
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Default

I contacted VB and P this AM. Very friendly and willing to discuss. He also pointed twd. the MC not fully releasing, improper MC part (pwr MC in place std MC), and/or improper rod adjustment, and also mentioned that sometimes there is dragging due to too many shims behind pads (I will check this as well). He did not totally dismiss that the calipers themselves could be sticking, but thought it unlikely, especially both fronts at the same time. He was quite friendly and said if I had eliminated all other sources he would readily accept the calipers back and have a look. Just FYI for those considering VP and P it is good to have someone so willing to talk....

So, I guess at this point I am still looking at a MC as the culprit?
Reply
Old May 7, 2012 | 11:11 AM
  #47  
oldalaskaman's Avatar
oldalaskaman
Le Mans Master
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,272
Likes: 17
Default

excellent
Reply
Old May 7, 2012 | 12:28 PM
  #48  
Mike Ward's Avatar
Mike Ward
Race Director
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Default

Originally Posted by oldalaskaman
based on that pic, if there's an issue with the fronts , there should also be an issue with the rears, based on the op's description , its common to both fronts, but not the rears.
And yet it happens that one system or the other does not release and the other does

Originally Posted by 72 corvette roadster
So, I guess at this point I am still looking at a MC as the culprit?
Hey- ya think? Take the d*mn thing off, take it apart and clean it out. Inspect for damage and repair/replace accordingly.
Reply
Corvette Stories

The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts

story-0

Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!

 Joe Kucinski
story-1

150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter

 Joe Kucinski
story-2

8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time

 Verdad Gallardo
story-3

Top 10 Corvette Engines RANKED by Peak Torque (70+ Years of Muscle!)

 Joe Kucinski
story-4

Corvette ZR1X Will Be Pacing the Indy 500, And Could Probably Race, Too!

 Verdad Gallardo
story-5

Top 10 Corvettes Coming to Mecum Indy 2026!

 Brett Foote
story-6

Top 10 C9 Corvette MUST-HAVES to Fix These C8 Generation Flaws!

 Michael S. Palmer
story-7

10 Revolutionary 'Corvette Firsts' Most People Don't Know

 Joe Kucinski
story-8

5 Reasons to Upgrade to an LS6-Powered Corvette; 5 Reasons to Stay LT2

 Michael S. Palmer
story-9

2027 Corvette vs The World: Every C8 vs Its Closest Competitor

 Joe Kucinski
Old May 7, 2012 | 02:47 PM
  #49  
oldalaskaman's Avatar
oldalaskaman
Le Mans Master
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,272
Likes: 17
Default

could take it and get it reverse pressure bled, blow that crud out the top...if there is any.
Reply
Old May 7, 2012 | 03:44 PM
  #50  
lionelhutz's Avatar
lionelhutz
Race Director
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,150
Likes: 890
From: South Western Ontario
Default

Originally Posted by 72 corvette roadster
Also, I cracked open the bleed nipple on one the LF and lightly pushed back the pads (resulting of course in a bit of fluid coming out) and then it turned very easily...
OK, I have to point out something stupidly obvious (well at least to me). This proves nothing. Manually pushing the pistons back doesn't prove the calipers are not sticking. 2 or 3 experts have jumped-in agreeing that this means the MC failed except the test was flawed and nothing was proven. You can't manually push the pads back.
Reply
Old May 7, 2012 | 04:06 PM
  #51  
72 corvette roadster's Avatar
72 corvette roadster
Thread Starter
Advanced
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by lionelhutz
OK, I have to point out something stupidly obvious (well at least to me). This proves nothing. Manually pushing the pistons back doesn't prove the calipers are not sticking. 2 or 3 experts have jumped-in agreeing that this means the MC failed except the test was flawed and nothing was proven. You can't manually push the pads back.
Yes you are correct, but that was just my first stab at the problem to make sure the bearing itself would turn freely. Afterward, I pumped the pedal several times which re-set the pistons/pads and re-created the difficult to turn the wheel issue. THEN, I went to the next steps of loosening the MC from firewall, then loosening front line from MC (which freed up the wheels).
Reply
Old May 7, 2012 | 04:07 PM
  #52  
Mike Ward's Avatar
Mike Ward
Race Director
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Default

Originally Posted by lionelhutz
You can't manually push the pads back.
I can.
Reply
Old May 7, 2012 | 04:24 PM
  #53  
my 76 ray's Avatar
my 76 ray
Melting Slicks
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,520
Likes: 11
From: Hinckley OH
Default

Since loosening the front line at the master cylinder frreed up the front pads, then it is probably safe to assume that the master cylinder is not allowing the fluid to return when the brake is released.
Reply
Old May 7, 2012 | 06:44 PM
  #54  
Peterbuilt's Avatar
Peterbuilt
Le Mans Master
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,419
Likes: 1,555
From: mount holly NC
2025 c3 ('74-'82) of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2019 C3 of Year Finalist (appearance mods)
Default

When you get your new M/C make sure the holes at the end match the one you took off...


Don't forget to bench bleed the new one, here's how...
Reply
Old May 7, 2012 | 10:10 PM
  #55  
Ghunt's Avatar
Ghunt
Instructor
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 157
Likes: 1
From: Sebring florida
Default

As said somewhere in this thread, These calipers pistons are spring loaded and keep pad contact with the rotor. Any pad contact will not allow the wheel to spin freely.
I have the same problem and bet that the spring suppliers are not paying attension to the specs or can't convert english into Chinise.

George
Reply
Old May 8, 2012 | 12:47 AM
  #56  
lionelhutz's Avatar
lionelhutz
Race Director
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,150
Likes: 890
From: South Western Ontario
Default

Originally Posted by Mike Ward
I can.
I don't really care what you can do out of context....
Reply
Old May 13, 2012 | 11:08 AM
  #57  
72 corvette roadster's Avatar
72 corvette roadster
Thread Starter
Advanced
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Default

OK, new MC from ZIP in the car yesterday and voila! Wow, what a difference in the reduction of drag on the front brakes. The car now rolls freely in neutral and at stop lights on slight grades. Looking forward to a fuel economy boost as well-I was getting 14 mpg with a totally stock car and dragging brakes....maybe 15 or 16 now? Thanks for all of the comments help and opinions!
Reply
Old May 13, 2012 | 11:25 AM
  #58  
Mike Ward's Avatar
Mike Ward
Race Director
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Default

Glad to hear it was an easy fix.
Reply




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:11 PM.

story-0
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!

Slideshow: The 10 most explosive Corvettes ever built based on power-to-weight ratio.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-20 07:23:03


VIEW MORE
story-1
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter

Slideshow: From C1 to C8 we compare every Corvette generation by the numbers.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-12 16:54:12


VIEW MORE
story-2
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time

Slideshow: Some Corvette pace cars became collectible legends, while others perfectly captured the look and attitude of their era.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-11 09:50:51


VIEW MORE
story-3
Top 10 Corvette Engines RANKED by Peak Torque (70+ Years of Muscle!)

Slideshow: Ranking the top 10 Corvette engines by torque output.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-05 11:58:09


VIEW MORE
story-4
Corvette ZR1X Will Be Pacing the Indy 500, And Could Probably Race, Too!

Slideshow: A Corvette pace car nearly matching IndyCar speeds sounds exaggerated, until you look at the numbers.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-04 20:03:36


VIEW MORE
story-5
Top 10 Corvettes Coming to Mecum Indy 2026!

Among a rather large group of them.

By Brett Foote | 2026-05-04 13:56:44


VIEW MORE
story-6
Top 10 C9 Corvette MUST-HAVES to Fix These C8 Generation Flaws!

Slideshow: the top 10 things Corvette owners want in the C9 Corvette

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-04-30 12:41:15


VIEW MORE
story-7
10 Revolutionary 'Corvette Firsts' Most People Don't Know

Slideshow: 10 Important Corvette 'firsts' that every fan should know.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-29 17:02:16


VIEW MORE
story-8
5 Reasons to Upgrade to an LS6-Powered Corvette; 5 Reasons to Stay LT2

Slideshow: Should you buy a 2020-2026 Corvette or wait for 2027?

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-04-22 10:08:58


VIEW MORE
story-9
2027 Corvette vs The World: Every C8 vs Its Closest Competitor

Slideshow: 2027 Corvette lineup vs the world.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-24 16:12:42


VIEW MORE