What would be the advantages of ES bushings on a street driven car?

 

They're tighter and don't deflect as much as rubber bushings. It's a more precise feel. Depending on the springs and shocks, and what the driver is looking for, some might call it "harsh" under certain conditions. I'm set up with Bilstein shocks and 550# springs in front, with a big-block sway bar. It doesn't feel "harsh," to me, but it is very precise and stuck to the road.

 

For a car run at events, I would agree. I run the car in Time Trials and use steel bushings. But for a street car, I think rubber would be fine. But that is just my opinion.

 

I think that there is some misunderstanding on the value of poly bushings versus rubber bushings. The major drawback with the C3's suspension amongst other issues is that there is way too much play in general. I replaced my upper and lower control arm rubber bushings about 4 years ago with poly and was shocked at how much more responsive the handling and ride after the change. And no I did not find the car rode harder, just much more solid and handling improved immensely-the car is not raced, just driven on the street. My front setup has been completely rebuilt over time and I have the following components:

1. Stock 1 1/8 inch OEM sway bar with poly mounting and end link bushings (since 1983 BTW)
2. Poly Upper and Lower control arm bushings (about 5 year ago-no squeaks)
3. 550 F-41 springs-1 inch lower than stock
4. Bilstein Heavy Duty shocks with poly upper mountings
5. Speed Direct Spreader Bar-Abosolue MUST for all C3's
6. Blue Printed/Rebuilt OEM Gary OEM steering box
7. 255/45/17 ZR Summer only Ultra High performance tires (they ride better than the OEM 255/60/15 junk)

In the Rear:

1. 3/4 inch OEM type bar (not an aftermarket linkage bar) with poly Mounting bushings
2. Competition adjustable strut rods with HEIM joints -no bushings-Absolute MUST to stop unwanted rear end movement
3. 360 monospring (1986) with poly mounting bushings
4. Bilstein Sport Shocks (30% stiffer than the front HD's)
5. 255/50/17 ZR like the fronts

The car rides, steers, and handles better than any C3 I have ever been in with NO HARSH ride-just the right combination of OEM type components with Ultra High performance Tires. My 2010 Z06 rides much stiffer! A neighbor with a Lexus LS430 rode in my 78 recently and commented that he could not believe at how well the car rode and handled. I commented most C3's don't ride nor handle anywhere near as well.

Hope that helps!!

 

About the only change in there that I would make would be to use a VB&P dual-mount rear spring in place of the standard-mount spring and sway bar.

 

Here's a couple sites to check out. Give them a call. I've bought a lot of items from both places.

http://www.vbandp.com/

http://www.vansteel.com/

Don't forget to take care of your steering. I had Gary on the DC Forums blueprint my steering box, made a huge difference.

 

1980 ZZ4,
I just purchased the Performance Plus package from VBP which has the whole complete front and rear suspension, also went with rebuilt spindles.
My car is a 1976 and stock factory Gymkahana suspension , so the new set-up should not be to harsh for me. Both front and rear springs are adjustable, seems like a really nice set-up.
Taking the old suspension out was the worst of it , trailing arms were really hard , a day for each side. Being over 65 and a Disabled Veteran ,this was really not a bad or really hard to do job.
I was going to only replace the ball joints and a few bushings but got to thinking about putting new parts onto old parts always leads to future failure of the old part which intails having to the job all over again to get to the old part that I should have replaced when I put the new part on. Long story cut short, I just went with the whole package.
Let you know when I get it on the road.

 

Thanks for your reply. I hadn't planned on doing this on my own, but you guys are tempting me. I currently have the engine and trans out of the car. Getting to everything would be a breeze right now. I guess the question to myself is 'do I really want to do this'? How hard is it to get the bushings in and out of the A-Arms? (I suspect this might be the toughest part of the job)

Thanks again.

Brad

 

Easy if you have, or have access to, the right tools. After all, you're working at a work bench not under the car. I use an acetylene torch to melt the old rubber from their bushings. Then use an air chisel to remove the metal bushing shells from the A-arms. A hydraulic shop press is needed to install the new parts. I fabbed up a fixture that fits between the A-arm 'ears' to keep them from collapsing during the press fit. A straight forward easy job.

 

I happen to have done a good bit of road racing over the years, and the sensitive instrument on which I sit happens to register that one needn't be on track to benefit from poly used in appropriate locations, despite certain shortcomings. Fact is, there are a number of us who find stock components to be inadequate, even for street use. That said, those not interested in improved handling for spirited driving should stick with rubber.

 

Did my 82 last month I used poly prothane bushings on the control arms, moog ball joints and moog front stock replacement springs. Great ride but the thought of doubling the front spring rate (f41)I think would be a bit too much IMHO

 

After waiting for parts, then vacation away from home, I finally got my car to the front end guy this morning. It will be good to have this done so that I can get the ZZ4 and 200R4 put in. FINALLY!!

 

Yes. What he said.
Poly increases the noise, vibration and harshness, no matter what the salesman tells you.

 

as far as the control arm bushings go a good machine shop will remove the old and install the new. then you can detail and paint. if this is the only step stopping you from doing it yourself go that route.

 

It makes perfect sense that 'Poly' being more rigid would also be more unforgiving to any shock or vibration. The outcome has to have the result suggested below. However, like most anything, people have varying acceptance of these characteristics. I had the 'Poly' kit in my last car and was very happy with the outcome. IMO, the added control is impressive and worth the side effects.

 

I had the shop that did my last car, complete the work for me. The cost was just over $300, I'm thinking that avoiding the potential frustration was worth the money. Time to move on to installing the engine and new trans.

 

I just did this and had a shop assist me as well. I had them remove the parts, which I then soaked in degreaser, sandblasted them, had the shop install the new bushings, and then I repainted them before the final installation. Was kind of a PITA since I had to wait on them to get the parts, then they had to wait on me to finish them up. But I couldn't imagine just putting the new bushings in the upper/lower control arms the way they were. Were yours in good enough shape to just put new bushings in and go? My car's a '70 so maybe it had a few more years of road grime than yours.

 

Hi Jason,

I pressure washed the engine bay after removing the original engine and trans. This did a great job cleaning off the grease that remained. I actually painted before going to the shop and it looks super. I'm waiting for all the power steering components now. Figured this is a good time to refresh before installing the ZZ4 and 2004R. I'm finally starting to get excited.