Motor Oil "Wear Test" and "Lab Test" Data
10-01-2012, 03:58 PM
#61
Race Director
Makes sense, and there are real world applications where it is called for, just like everything else. I have a ZZ572/720R ( R is for race) engine in my 68 which I do drive on the street - but it sees limited use. The engine installation guide for this engine which can be downloaded off of www.chevroletperformance.com, specifically calls for 20w50 oil to be used - these things are set up rather loose in the mains and have a .714 lift solid roller cam. Very frequent oil changes are part of the deal.
10-02-2012, 01:57 PM
#62
Le Mans Master
Your builder uses what they choose to as do you, but it's well outside of what's recommended.
10-06-2012, 08:24 AM
#63
Advanced
I am a newbe here and I was told to check out this thread so that I would know what oil to use in my car. That may have been the worst advise I have ever been given. (-;
The following 2 users liked this post by dbartol1:
cincygman (06-29-2019),
panhandler1956 (03-27-2024)
10-06-2012, 08:47 AM
#64
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-tech-performance/2484100-list-of-flat-tappet-oils.html
10-06-2012, 01:05 PM
#65
Le Mans Master
I believe this is the topic that you need:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-tech-performance/2484100-list-of-flat-tappet-oils.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-tech-performance/2484100-list-of-flat-tappet-oils.html
You'll find everything you need there. 
10-07-2012, 11:19 PM
#66
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Hmmmm... a personal pizzing match in C3 Tech. Who woulda thunk it? 
Seeing how this is a sticky, Im going to clean up all the junk and send people to the penalty box.
If you guys want to continue to access this sticky for all the information enclosed within, please play nice.
Additional cleanup due to personal bickering and namecalling from this point on will result in vacation time.
Please... attack ideas, not people.
Seeing how this is a sticky, Im going to clean up all the junk and send people to the penalty box.
If you guys want to continue to access this sticky for all the information enclosed within, please play nice.
Additional cleanup due to personal bickering and namecalling from this point on will result in vacation time.
Please... attack ideas, not people.
Last edited by vettebuyer6369; 10-07-2012 at 11:54 PM.
10-08-2012, 11:34 AM
#67
Race Director
The following users liked this post:
stilltrying (10-18-2022)
11-05-2012, 07:03 PM
#68
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First time for "USED" oil "Wear Test" data
This is the first time I've "Wear Tested" used oil, to see how it performs compared to the new oil I've always tested up to now.
“NEW” 5W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN = 99,983 psi “load carrying capacity/film strength”
zinc = 1042 ppm
phos = 857 ppm
moly = 100 ppm
titanium = 49 ppm
Total anti-wear = 2048 ppm
“USED” 5W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN with 5,000 miles on it = 107,391 psi “load carrying capacity/film strength”
Used oil lab test quantities:
zinc = 791 ppm (down 251 ppm or down 24%)
phos =643 ppm (down 214 ppm or down 25%)
moly = 67 ppm (down 33 ppm or down 33%)
titanium = 36 ppm (down 13 ppm or down 27%)
Total anti-wear = 1537 ppm (down 511 ppm or down 25%)
The 107,391 psi wear protection capability of the used oil above, is a 7% “higher” wear protection capability with this batch of “used” oil, compared to the original “new” test oil batch. Repeat testing of both the used batch of oil and the original new batch of oil, resulted in consistent and repeatable results for each batch. So, all the wear protection capability numbers shown above are absolutely correct, and simply are what they are.
This is of course only a single used oil data point. So, it is too early to know for sure if this particular used oil showed a little higher level of wear protection, compared to new oil, because of differences in separate batches of oil produced at different times, or if used oil might tend to show somewhat improved values. More upcoming used oil testing will shed more light on that. But, either way, it is comforting to see that as oil goes at least 5,000 miles, it does NOT lose its wear protection capability, even though the zinc and the other anti-wear component levels have dropped significantly.
And as you can clearly see in particular, the 24% zinc depletion noted above, did NOT result in any loss of wear protection at all. Previous testing of new oils with various levels of zinc, have shown the same exact results time and time again, where zinc levels alone had no affect at all on the wear protection capability of any motor oil. Higher zinc levels DO NOT and CANNOT provide more wear protection. Higher levels of zinc can only provide LONGER wear protection, because extra zinc will simply take longer to become depleted. The base oil and its additive package “as a whole”, are what determine an oil’s wear protection capability, NOT how much zinc is present.
The next “used oil” to be tested, will be the number 1 ranked 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM. I’m running that oil in a 435 HP LS2 engine right now, and should have some data on how it performs after 5,000 miles, in a couple of months.
540 RAT
Member SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers)
“NEW” 5W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN = 99,983 psi “load carrying capacity/film strength”
zinc = 1042 ppm
phos = 857 ppm
moly = 100 ppm
titanium = 49 ppm
Total anti-wear = 2048 ppm
“USED” 5W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN with 5,000 miles on it = 107,391 psi “load carrying capacity/film strength”
Used oil lab test quantities:
zinc = 791 ppm (down 251 ppm or down 24%)
phos =643 ppm (down 214 ppm or down 25%)
moly = 67 ppm (down 33 ppm or down 33%)
titanium = 36 ppm (down 13 ppm or down 27%)
Total anti-wear = 1537 ppm (down 511 ppm or down 25%)
The 107,391 psi wear protection capability of the used oil above, is a 7% “higher” wear protection capability with this batch of “used” oil, compared to the original “new” test oil batch. Repeat testing of both the used batch of oil and the original new batch of oil, resulted in consistent and repeatable results for each batch. So, all the wear protection capability numbers shown above are absolutely correct, and simply are what they are.
This is of course only a single used oil data point. So, it is too early to know for sure if this particular used oil showed a little higher level of wear protection, compared to new oil, because of differences in separate batches of oil produced at different times, or if used oil might tend to show somewhat improved values. More upcoming used oil testing will shed more light on that. But, either way, it is comforting to see that as oil goes at least 5,000 miles, it does NOT lose its wear protection capability, even though the zinc and the other anti-wear component levels have dropped significantly.
And as you can clearly see in particular, the 24% zinc depletion noted above, did NOT result in any loss of wear protection at all. Previous testing of new oils with various levels of zinc, have shown the same exact results time and time again, where zinc levels alone had no affect at all on the wear protection capability of any motor oil. Higher zinc levels DO NOT and CANNOT provide more wear protection. Higher levels of zinc can only provide LONGER wear protection, because extra zinc will simply take longer to become depleted. The base oil and its additive package “as a whole”, are what determine an oil’s wear protection capability, NOT how much zinc is present.
The next “used oil” to be tested, will be the number 1 ranked 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM. I’m running that oil in a 435 HP LS2 engine right now, and should have some data on how it performs after 5,000 miles, in a couple of months.
540 RAT
Member SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers)
11-05-2012, 07:18 PM
#69
Race Director
This is the first time I've "Wear Tested" used oil, to see how it performs compared to the new oil I've always tested up to now.
“NEW” 5W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN = 99,983 psi “load carrying capacity/film strength”
zinc = 1042 ppm
phos = 857 ppm
moly = 100 ppm
titanium = 49 ppm
Total anti-wear = 2048 ppm
“USED” 5W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN with 5,000 miles on it = 107,391 psi “load carrying capacity/film strength”
Used oil lab test quantities:
zinc = 791 ppm (down 251 ppm or down 24%)
phos =643 ppm (down 214 ppm or down 25%)
moly = 67 ppm (down 33 ppm or down 33%)
titanium = 36 ppm (down 13 ppm or down 27%)
Total anti-wear = 1537 ppm (down 511 ppm or down 25%)
The 107,391 psi wear protection capability of the used oil above, is a 7% “higher” wear protection capability with this batch of “used” oil, compared to the original “new” test oil batch. Repeat testing of both the used batch of oil and the original new batch of oil, resulted in consistent and repeatable results for each batch. So, all the wear protection capability numbers shown above are absolutely correct, and simply are what they are.
This is of course only a single used oil data point. So, it is too early to know for sure if this particular used oil showed a little higher level of wear protection, compared to new oil, because of differences in separate batches of oil produced at different times, or if used oil might tend to show somewhat improved values. More upcoming used oil testing will shed more light on that. But, either way, it is comforting to see that as oil goes at least 5,000 miles, it does NOT lose its wear protection capability, even though the zinc and the other anti-wear component levels have dropped significantly.
And as you can clearly see in particular, the 24% zinc depletion noted above, did NOT result in any loss of wear protection at all. Previous testing of new oils with various levels of zinc, have shown the same exact results time and time again, where zinc levels alone had no affect at all on the wear protection capability of any motor oil. Higher zinc levels DO NOT and CANNOT provide more wear protection. Higher levels of zinc can only provide LONGER wear protection, because extra zinc will simply take longer to become depleted. The base oil and its additive package “as a whole”, are what determine an oil’s wear protection capability, NOT how much zinc is present.
The next “used oil” to be tested, will be the number 1 ranked 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM. I’m running that oil in a 435 HP LS2 engine right now, and should have some data on how it performs after 5,000 miles, in a couple of months.
540 RAT
Member SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers)
“NEW” 5W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN = 99,983 psi “load carrying capacity/film strength”
zinc = 1042 ppm
phos = 857 ppm
moly = 100 ppm
titanium = 49 ppm
Total anti-wear = 2048 ppm
“USED” 5W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN with 5,000 miles on it = 107,391 psi “load carrying capacity/film strength”
Used oil lab test quantities:
zinc = 791 ppm (down 251 ppm or down 24%)
phos =643 ppm (down 214 ppm or down 25%)
moly = 67 ppm (down 33 ppm or down 33%)
titanium = 36 ppm (down 13 ppm or down 27%)
Total anti-wear = 1537 ppm (down 511 ppm or down 25%)
The 107,391 psi wear protection capability of the used oil above, is a 7% “higher” wear protection capability with this batch of “used” oil, compared to the original “new” test oil batch. Repeat testing of both the used batch of oil and the original new batch of oil, resulted in consistent and repeatable results for each batch. So, all the wear protection capability numbers shown above are absolutely correct, and simply are what they are.
This is of course only a single used oil data point. So, it is too early to know for sure if this particular used oil showed a little higher level of wear protection, compared to new oil, because of differences in separate batches of oil produced at different times, or if used oil might tend to show somewhat improved values. More upcoming used oil testing will shed more light on that. But, either way, it is comforting to see that as oil goes at least 5,000 miles, it does NOT lose its wear protection capability, even though the zinc and the other anti-wear component levels have dropped significantly.
And as you can clearly see in particular, the 24% zinc depletion noted above, did NOT result in any loss of wear protection at all. Previous testing of new oils with various levels of zinc, have shown the same exact results time and time again, where zinc levels alone had no affect at all on the wear protection capability of any motor oil. Higher zinc levels DO NOT and CANNOT provide more wear protection. Higher levels of zinc can only provide LONGER wear protection, because extra zinc will simply take longer to become depleted. The base oil and its additive package “as a whole”, are what determine an oil’s wear protection capability, NOT how much zinc is present.
The next “used oil” to be tested, will be the number 1 ranked 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM. I’m running that oil in a 435 HP LS2 engine right now, and should have some data on how it performs after 5,000 miles, in a couple of months.
540 RAT
Member SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers)
With your above post entirely if you replace the words wear testing and wear protection with the words film strength throughout the post as that is what your testing. You are not getting the fact that there is a difference between film strength and anti wear additives, a difference between film strength and extreme pressure additives and a difference between anti wear additives and extreme pressure additives. They do interact to a degree but your test is exclusively testing film strength at 230 degrees and your PSI number is how much pressure it takes to break the film strength. Nothing more, nothing less and your testing has merit if taken in that context.
11-08-2012, 12:21 AM
#70
Man!
Both of you are ruining this forum!
Just stay out of each others posts....
Both of you are ruining this forum!
Just stay out of each others posts....
Last edited by Kruegmeister; 11-08-2012 at 12:33 AM.
11-09-2012, 01:08 AM
#71
Race Director
I do not agree with extrapolated conclusions based on improper testing protocol.
The testing unit used is a Film Strength tester. It is not testing anything other than the amount of pressure required to break the film strength of the tested oil at 230 degrees.
This has no bearing on the extreme pressure additives capabilities other than influencing how fast they will deplete.
11-09-2012, 04:39 PM
#72
This is a forum. An exchange of ideas. I am contributing.
I do not agree with extrapolated conclusions based on improper testing protocol.
The testing unit used is a Film Strength tester. It is not testing anything other than the amount of pressure required to break the film strength of the tested oil at 230 degrees.
This has no bearing on the extreme pressure additives capabilities other than influencing how fast they will deplete.
I do not agree with extrapolated conclusions based on improper testing protocol.
The testing unit used is a Film Strength tester. It is not testing anything other than the amount of pressure required to break the film strength of the tested oil at 230 degrees.
This has no bearing on the extreme pressure additives capabilities other than influencing how fast they will deplete.
Now with the Back and Forth Spamming of each others Posts it took me HOURS to read to this conclusion because of all the bickering. About 3 Hours into it I thought of making a Post asking someone to pick my Oil for me because I was just plain Frustrated... Heck, I still don't know if I picked the right one..........
So in my Opinion you should state your Case Once so we know that there is a Disagreement in what is "Fact". We can then read the Two Threads and 50% can pick wrong and 50% of us can pick right. I tried to pick one that made both Lists and Had the 1400 minimum and hoped for the Best. So can you see how all of this over abundance of Text makes it more Difficult for either of you to do what you set out to do in the First Place, which was Help others pick the Right Oil.
11-09-2012, 06:19 PM
#73
I say this because I am not the Only Guy new to the C3 forums that just wants to find out what kind of Oil I should run... After reading these Two Threads I am more confused than when I started. I picked one that was on Both Threads the Valvoline VR1 10W30 because it seemed to meet both of the Threads Requirements, short of being a Racing Fuel... But heck I can change it every 3000 as much as I'll drive my 68.
Now with the Back and Forth Spamming of each others Posts it took me HOURS to read to this conclusion because of all the bickering. About 3 Hours into it I thought of making a Post asking someone to pick my Oil for me because I was just plain Frustrated... Heck, I still don't know if I picked the right one..........
So in my Opinion you should state your Case Once so we know that there is a Disagreement in what is "Fact". We can then read the Two Threads and 50% can pick wrong and 50% of us can pick right. I tried to pick one that made both Lists and Had the 1400 minimum and hoped for the Best. So can you see how all of this over abundance of Text makes it more Difficult for either of you to do what you set out to do in the First Place, which was Help others pick the Right Oil.
Now with the Back and Forth Spamming of each others Posts it took me HOURS to read to this conclusion because of all the bickering. About 3 Hours into it I thought of making a Post asking someone to pick my Oil for me because I was just plain Frustrated... Heck, I still don't know if I picked the right one..........
So in my Opinion you should state your Case Once so we know that there is a Disagreement in what is "Fact". We can then read the Two Threads and 50% can pick wrong and 50% of us can pick right. I tried to pick one that made both Lists and Had the 1400 minimum and hoped for the Best. So can you see how all of this over abundance of Text makes it more Difficult for either of you to do what you set out to do in the First Place, which was Help others pick the Right Oil.
NOBODY had anything bad to say about AMSOIL 10-40 Hi Zinc. People whined and complained about everybody elses choice . I wanted a KNOWN consistant product .
So I choose AMSOIL , because I have never heard or read a bad word about the oil.
I have several flat tappet vechicles and I can say that AMSOIL is living up to its advertising 100% in all of them.
If you feel its necessary to save a few dollars and be contary to prove a point as I feel alot of these bonesheads are doing then it your car. Coose the certain path and be happy.
So there from one person once as frustrated as yourself to another..... I recomend AMSOIL HI ZINC formula and you can't go wrong.
Last edited by LS4 PILOT; 11-09-2012 at 06:28 PM.
11-09-2012, 07:26 PM
#74
Race Director
I feel your pain in this matter.. I was po'd too reading though all this about 2 years ago . After HOURS of wading though all the buts , but I 's , I can's , yadda yadda ... What I got from EVERYBODY and reading EVERYTHING thing is one fact and one oil that stood out.
NOBODY had anything bad to say about AMSOIL 10-40 Hi Zinc. People whined and complained about everybody elses choice . I wanted a KNOWN consistant product .
So I choose AMSOIL , because I have never heard or read a bad word about the oil.
I have several flat tappet vechicles and I can say that AMSOIL is living up to its advertising 100% in all of them.
If you feel its necessary to save a few dollars and be contary to prove a point as I feel alot of these bonesheads are doing then it your car. Coose the certain path and be happy.
So there from one person once as frustrated as yourself to another..... I recomend AMSOIL HI ZINC formula and you can't go wrong.
NOBODY had anything bad to say about AMSOIL 10-40 Hi Zinc. People whined and complained about everybody elses choice . I wanted a KNOWN consistant product .
So I choose AMSOIL , because I have never heard or read a bad word about the oil.
I have several flat tappet vechicles and I can say that AMSOIL is living up to its advertising 100% in all of them.
If you feel its necessary to save a few dollars and be contary to prove a point as I feel alot of these bonesheads are doing then it your car. Coose the certain path and be happy.
So there from one person once as frustrated as yourself to another..... I recomend AMSOIL HI ZINC formula and you can't go wrong.
11-11-2012, 09:21 AM
#75
Premium Supporting Vendor
AMSOIL SAE Synthetic Premium Protection 10w40 (Product Code AMOQT)
(zinc – 1378 ppm, phosphorus 1265 ppm)
This is probably somewhere above, so I apologize for the dupe post, but for those who don't read this whole sticky, as a reminder, more than happy to get AMSOIL products for forum members at dealer wholesale pricing, about 25% below retail, via the AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program. Drop me a PM if interested.
(zinc – 1378 ppm, phosphorus 1265 ppm)
This is probably somewhere above, so I apologize for the dupe post, but for those who don't read this whole sticky, as a reminder, more than happy to get AMSOIL products for forum members at dealer wholesale pricing, about 25% below retail, via the AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program. Drop me a PM if interested.
__________________
C66 Racing #66 NASA ST2, SCCA T2
AMSOIL Dealer (Forum Vendor)
AMSOIL Ordering Information (Retail sales using reference #1206638 benefit the forum.)
AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program (Members buy at Wholesale - a savings of about 25%)
AMSOIL Catalog
C66 Racing #66 NASA ST2, SCCA T2
AMSOIL Dealer (Forum Vendor)
AMSOIL Ordering Information (Retail sales using reference #1206638 benefit the forum.)
AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program (Members buy at Wholesale - a savings of about 25%)
AMSOIL Catalog
11-11-2012, 11:21 AM
#76
Race Director
So in my Opinion you should state your Case Once so we know that there is a Disagreement in what is "Fact". We can then read the Two Threads and 50% can pick wrong and 50% of us can pick right. I tried to pick one that made both Lists and Had the 1400 minimum and hoped for the Best. So can you see how all of this over abundance of Text makes it more Difficult for either of you to do what you set out to do in the First Place, which was Help others pick the Right Oil.
100% about only posting once and writing a novel on all your posts. Problem is the OP here writes a full page writeup every time he posts. I generally respond to those posts with a sentence to a paragraph that explains in detail and as short as possible why his statements are incorrect. I have never started an oil thread, just a contributor.
11-11-2012, 07:51 PM
#77
Hmmmm... a personal pizzing match in C3 Tech. Who woulda thunk it?
Seeing how this is a sticky, Im going to clean up all the junk and send people to the penalty box.
If you guys want to continue to access this sticky for all the information enclosed within, please play nice.
Additional cleanup due to personal bickering and namecalling from this point on will result in vacation time.
Please... attack ideas, not people.
Seeing how this is a sticky, Im going to clean up all the junk and send people to the penalty box.
If you guys want to continue to access this sticky for all the information enclosed within, please play nice.
Additional cleanup due to personal bickering and namecalling from this point on will result in vacation time.
Please... attack ideas, not people.
11-19-2012, 07:33 PM
#78
I feel your pain in this matter.. I was po'd too reading though all this about 2 years ago . After HOURS of wading though all the buts , but I 's , I can's , yadda yadda ... What I got from EVERYBODY and reading EVERYTHING thing is one fact and one oil that stood out.
NOBODY had anything bad to say about AMSOIL 10-40 Hi Zinc. People whined and complained about everybody elses choice . I wanted a KNOWN consistant product .
So I choose AMSOIL , because I have never heard or read a bad word about the oil.
I have several flat tappet vechicles and I can say that AMSOIL is living up to its advertising 100% in all of them.
If you feel its necessary to save a few dollars and be contary to prove a point as I feel alot of these bonesheads are doing then it your car. Coose the certain path and be happy.
So there from one person once as frustrated as yourself to another..... I recomend AMSOIL HI ZINC formula and you can't go wrong.
NOBODY had anything bad to say about AMSOIL 10-40 Hi Zinc. People whined and complained about everybody elses choice . I wanted a KNOWN consistant product .
So I choose AMSOIL , because I have never heard or read a bad word about the oil.
I have several flat tappet vechicles and I can say that AMSOIL is living up to its advertising 100% in all of them.
If you feel its necessary to save a few dollars and be contary to prove a point as I feel alot of these bonesheads are doing then it your car. Coose the certain path and be happy.
So there from one person once as frustrated as yourself to another..... I recomend AMSOIL HI ZINC formula and you can't go wrong.
AMSOIL looks to meet both Requirements of the 2 Opposing Threads as well, I'll have to look into a source for that. As of Now the Valvoline VR1 stuff I can get on Amazon and seems to meet both besides being a racing oil... However now it is available as a 10W-30. The Guy I bought my 68 from was running the VR1 but the Fixed SAE40 Weight Racing Stuff.
I personally do not care about saving any money on my oil because I would rather blow money on the Oil over an Engine Change especially since I have the Original Motor with only 43000 on it. I just want the Best Stuff... Unfortunately how can we tell what is best when there is no Clear choice........
11-20-2012, 08:46 AM
#79
Burning Brakes
I think it is funny how most corvette c3 owners are so worried about what to run in their low horse power, barely driven light weight cars. Oh, and I forgot, cheap to replace engines. However, do the same worried people question what oil to run in their new daily driver? The typical new car runs much hotter, much harder working, and most are even double the stock HP. Oh, and most new car engines can run at least 300k miles+ before a major rebuild. Anyway, I am glad we have so many oil versions and company's, Keep up the good work Guys. Al