A local machine shop was recommended and I stopped by yesterday to talk to the engine builder. My 1980 has a rebuilt 1969 block in it that was basically put to stock spec's (California car). The new build has a target hp of 400 with aluminum heads. Some of my concerns:
1. The builder is looking at a 10.5 to 1 cr, I was looking at 9.5 to 1 on pump gas. His logic is a little higher on the cr requires a little less cam, especially with aluminum heads.
2. Running my current Q-Jet was not a great idea, he didn't say what his preferred carb was. My thinking is 400hp should not be a problem for a q-jet. I told him I would rework the q-jet and he said fine, he has a carb guy to do that. I didn't tell him about Lars.
3. Running HEI was not the preferred ignition, he likes to run the MSD box. I can understand upgrading a stock HEI, but I don't see a problem with an aftermarket HEI. I've run them for years on hot and street rods.
4. His preferred piston is a forged premium KB. I know about the problems with the KB hyper pistons. I have no experience with the KB forged pistons. Also, why put forged in 400hp engine? The builder stated that these pistons eliminate the past problems associated with forged pistons in a street engine. Feedback on these pistons?

 

HEI is 10 times more reliable than any MSD

Smaller cams better with aluminum heads/more compression

Cant decide on compression til you choose your cam anyway

Id question using this guy.

 

Always get references, not recommendations - i.e. talk to someone the shop has built an engine for in the last 30-45 days.

I would personally stay at 10.2 or less for street car that's being driven on a regular basis...but then again, I don't subscribe to the DCR concept for a street-driven engine. The difference in power for that point or 1/2 point of CR is negligable (2-3%) at this power level.

If you're not going to make changes in the engine over time, keep your Q-Jet for sure. The only time something else is worthwhile is if you're going to be tweaking/upgrading the engine on a regular basis...as tuning expertise and parts for other carbs is more readily available.

HEI is the perfect street ignition; no need for an MSD box. I'm assuming he's not doing the install...so why would he care?

KB are fine IF he understands the need for a wider ring gap...but why bother with so many other good brands? The forged vs. hypereutectic debate will go on for pages, but if you're running a cast crank and you have no plans for a power-adder then hypereutectics are fine. There's no issues with forged pistons on the street - the fit is looser (hypereutectics are typically fit to .001 +/- .00025, forged to around .003-.004) but that's really not an issue.

Overall, he sounds like an "old skool" builder that tends towards the race side of things - I would get a good reference from a guy that bought a street engine from him, and post the full specs here for review.

 

I am not a big fan of MSD, but being sorta set in my ways, I decided to get other opinions. I definitely like the durability of the HEI

The builder said the same thing about smaller cam/aluminum heads/more compression

I haven't totally selected a cam, it's going to be a retro roller if my 69 block checks out ok, 110 lobe, .50 lift, not sure on the duration yet.

I already have concerns, that's why I turned to the forum

 

I've seen his work, he actually did the heads on my 4.7 jeep engine. He did a nice job. The quality of his work is top shelf, I am just not sure if his build selections are what I want. I need to walk around the local meets and ask some more questions. I only spoke to a couple of people who had this builder, both were very happy.

I discussed my not really wanting to go above the 10 to 1 or 10.2 to 1 and he did mention I would be losing 2 to 3 percent.

Q-Jet, I already decided to keep that! Re jetting is not a big deal.

HEI - the builder seemed very concerned about a strong ignition system. I can only guess he's had problems in the past with customers blaming his work when it was ignition related. I have no problem buying an upgrade HEI.

Hyper vs forged - My last build, some years ago, I used forged and I believe they were Federal. The builder says the Federal are no longer made in the USA. So, I hate to run the risk of asking what piston you run with, but what the heck, with a cast crank, what would you run? I have no fear of buying the forged.

 

Pardon the intrusion. What do you mean by "pump gas"? I'm never sure what people mean by that...87 octane or the highest regularly available, like 91 or 93. Thanks.

If I had an HEI I wouldn't jump to an MSD, even though I've have an all-MSD ignition for 10 years without one problem.

If the cost of this custom build starts getting up there, it might pay to consider a crate engine.

Good luck with it.

 

Federal (Mogul) = Speed Pro/Sealed Power. There were DEFINITELY issues a few years back with these when they first swapped to overseas manufacture but I've had no issues at all with the ones I've used in the last few years. Careful selection can make for an easier balance - they make lines that are easier to balance with cast cranks. As always, a balanced ***'y is the cheapest and best bet vs. mixing and matching parts.

I use Speed Pro and SRP/JE pistons; many good brands out there; those are just the brands that have worked for me.

 

To me, pump gas means the highest octane that you can get in the area that you live.
The it was the builders suggestion to go MSD and his reasoning had to due with the moving weights in the HEI and the MSD giving more control over timing. My thoughts were this is not a track car, just a street car.
I considered a crate motor, but it gets pricey when you mix in the roller cam and aluminum heads. I even considered a short block and depending how it goes with this builder, I may be back to that.

 

I remember a post not that long ago about pistons and both the Speed pro and SRP/JE where a common favorite piston. Would you go hyper or forged?

 

Any of the major brands are a safe buy. Again - I would have a very detailed discussion regarding balancing with the shop before making any decisions. Balancing can get very spendy, very quickly, with components that aren't very well-planned.

The sole advantage of hypereutectic pistons is cost; forged would offer the opportunity to do a 100- or 150- shot of NOS if you decided that was in the cards at some point. If not, no advantage for forged...but certainly no problems using them either.

 

just my own experience, if you're having problems with simply the direction of the build, I would definately see who else might be around to do this work for you .... Sounds like this is not your first rodeo, as it appears you have an idea what you want. With the right set up, you should be able to make you target HP without going high compression. Find a good builder who can take care of your build top to bottom ... IMO.
What's you location ?????

 

I like my MSD, but I'm not pushing it, as it is an additional expense, while you have something that works already.

When I'm doing a motor, I get the "while I'm at" syndrome and the cost gets out of hand. That's why I was saying consider a crate if you start piling on the parts/machining.

 

The builder did make it a point to stress the fact that the rotating mass would be totally balanced, I tried to say in "mouth shut, ears open mode". His plan calls for the forged and I figured I could throw it out on the forum for good feedback (that's you Billa).

 

There is another builder in town, he did the block, rods/pistons, heads for my last two builds. I've never had somebody assemble an engine for me, I've always put them together myself. I could use him again, but he is conservative in respect to engine builds. I don't want to go thru this and later wish that I had just a little bit more cam (again). This time, I am going to order the cam myself.
The area is Long Island, NY.
Stay cool out there in Mesa!

 

Do you have a favorite crate motor that you've had experience with?

 

Buy the best heads you can afford.

 

Just about any assembly can be balanced...it's just a matter of how much it costs. One or two slugs of Mallory at $200/ea. can really screw up a build budget.

 

Thanks to all who posted
The next step is to get the engine out of the vette in this heat