bolt on headers w/no mods-
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,593
Likes: 103
From: Southern Indiana
I think that since its a vette there is a broad misconception that anything you do to them is a 5 day event.
Long tube headers on a vette is the easiest swap on any vehicle there is.
Try this on a 71 Cutlass with a 455 and see how you like grinding off the corners of your A-arms and beating dents in them everywhere!
Shorties are for street rod swaps not regular cars.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 153
Likes: 2
Well yea they say this, they sell headers.
I think that since its a vette there is a broad misconception that anything you do to them is a 5 day event.
Long tube headers on a vette is the easiest swap on any vehicle there is.
Try this on a 71 Cutlass with a 455 and see how you like grinding off the corners of your A-arms and beating dents in them everywhere!
Shorties are for street rod swaps not regular cars.
I think that since its a vette there is a broad misconception that anything you do to them is a 5 day event.
Long tube headers on a vette is the easiest swap on any vehicle there is.
Try this on a 71 Cutlass with a 455 and see how you like grinding off the corners of your A-arms and beating dents in them everywhere!
Shorties are for street rod swaps not regular cars.
See my previous post. Took me less than an hour to put the headers in. Look great. Sound great. Perform great. I did the SAME research you are doing before buying my long tubes. I read the same article from Sanderson and was almost sold on shorties myself. However, as other have said... shorties just seem sort of like a "half commitment" to the car. Of course, it all depends on the cam you are running, heads, power band, etc. With my solid lifter cam the power band was toward the higher range anyway so long tubes made sense. Cam is still pulling at 6K.
Look at the last graph on this page carefully. http://www.sandersonheaders.com/Lets-Get-Technical.html If you expect to run your car much above 4,000 RPM (which isn't that high for a small block...) then long tube is really going to be your best bet.
One last thing, I can get to every spark plug on my engine without issue. So that argument is trumped also. I say long tubes.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,593
Likes: 103
From: Southern Indiana
The deal is, if a person likes shorties then run them.
If you dare literally slap on a set of long tubes.
But the bottom line 95% of the vettes on here are street cars and the speed limit on main street is only 30MPH so either will work.
Some factors that affect me is the price, I don't know what shorties cost but long tubes from Summit are only $114 and last a long time.
9 times out of 10 no matter what you choose your going to the exhaust shop for cutting and welding so it might as well be for long tubes for the increase in performance somewhere in the RPM spectrum.
If you dare literally slap on a set of long tubes.
But the bottom line 95% of the vettes on here are street cars and the speed limit on main street is only 30MPH so either will work.
Some factors that affect me is the price, I don't know what shorties cost but long tubes from Summit are only $114 and last a long time.
9 times out of 10 no matter what you choose your going to the exhaust shop for cutting and welding so it might as well be for long tubes for the increase in performance somewhere in the RPM spectrum.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,676
Likes: 201
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
Many opinions / graphs/ computations and my favorite, formulas on this subject. Bottom line is for a properly built motor a long tube header is going to give you the most performance you can squeeze out of it.
Block huggers are just that, they hang down close to the block, not because they make more power but in some cars (C3's too) there is limited space.
Some companies make block huggers to bolt up to the existing OEM exhaust, so why doesn't' everyone just buy them and save some money and do it in their garages by themselves. Simple, if an 750 Holley gets you down the track .3sec faster than a 650 Holley, which one are you going to buy ?
I actually help design some headers with a company down south, I have still yet to see if they make more power ( been busy and I am not revving it again to 7500RPM until I put new springs in. ).
If I had / could do it again I would have gone with a stepped header starting at 1 3/4" and then at some point in the primary tubes expanding it to 1 7/8" instead of the straight primary tube of 1 7/8"
Block huggers are just that, they hang down close to the block, not because they make more power but in some cars (C3's too) there is limited space.
Some companies make block huggers to bolt up to the existing OEM exhaust, so why doesn't' everyone just buy them and save some money and do it in their garages by themselves. Simple, if an 750 Holley gets you down the track .3sec faster than a 650 Holley, which one are you going to buy ?
I actually help design some headers with a company down south, I have still yet to see if they make more power ( been busy and I am not revving it again to 7500RPM until I put new springs in. ).
If I had / could do it again I would have gone with a stepped header starting at 1 3/4" and then at some point in the primary tubes expanding it to 1 7/8" instead of the straight primary tube of 1 7/8"
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 969
Likes: 1
From: NJ
I have these and would buy again, 14 ga steel, 3/8 flange and ceramic coated. They fit my 79 auto with no problem.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HED-68308/
First set Summit shipped had some of the ceramic scratched off from rubbing together in the box. Summit had a second set shipped direct from Hedman and they were perfect. Great customer service.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HED-68308/
First set Summit shipped had some of the ceramic scratched off from rubbing together in the box. Summit had a second set shipped direct from Hedman and they were perfect. Great customer service.
Can you verify?
Thanks
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 945
Likes: 10
From: Winston Salem NC
I got mine from Josh Powers at Custom Image Corvettes. They were $400-450 as I recall. I've had them on the car about 6 months now and love them. All s/s. 3/8 flange. 2.5" collector. I had them ceramic coated.
The went right in. I have a stock L-48 in my '76.
The went right in. I have a stock L-48 in my '76.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Lynchburg VA
My exhaust is set up as 2/1/2 so I have the Y pipe going into cat then back to duals. If I were to go long tube I'm not so sure I'd be able to get the one on drivers side crossed back over with the other to get to the cat. The shortys would allow this to be done. I saw a set of Patriot 350 tight tuck ceramic headers that are running about $340. Can anyone comment on that brand or header? this was through www.corvettecentralexhaust.com.
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Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,593
Likes: 103
From: Southern Indiana
If you running a crossover pipe and a cat it doesn't matter what kind of or no headers, I wouldn't waste money on any just keep the manifolds.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 153
Likes: 2
Agreed. Either go all the way or don't do it at all. Headers (shorty or full length) aren't really going to help you if you are choking it down into a Y pipe down stream. Are you in a state that requires you to meet emissions specs? If not why not rip out the cat and go true dual?
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 164
Likes: 4
From: Riverside CA
Dougs Headers
I bought and installed Doug's headers. Ceramic coated with long tubes. I installed the headers in about 2 hours and the A/C bracket did need a little bit of modification to it. I needed to drill out the bolt holed because it was lifting the rear of the compressor so the belt wasn't riding perfectly straight. After drilling them out, the belt looked a lot better. I am very happy with the sound of my stock 350 and it seems like the power increased as well.
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
I bought and installed Doug's headers. Ceramic coated with long tubes. I installed the headers in about 2 hours and the A/C bracket did need a little bit of modification to it. I needed to drill out the bolt holed because it was lifting the rear of the compressor so the belt wasn't riding perfectly straight. After drilling them out, the belt looked a lot better. I am very happy with the sound of my stock 350 and it seems like the power increased as well.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Lynchburg VA
Agreed. Either go all the way or don't do it at all. Headers (shorty or full length) aren't really going to help you if you are choking it down into a Y pipe down stream. Are you in a state that requires you to meet emissions specs? If not why not rip out the cat and go true dual?
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 153
Likes: 2
Just looked up VA emission requirements and according to what I read vehicles which are 25 years or older are exempt from emissions inspections. True duals are going to require a few more bucks for removal of the old and installation of the new pipes. More stuff to think about; at least I don't have to choose at this very moment. I know of a custom muffler shop a few miles away, I wonder if it is cheaper to have them bend new pipes or purchase pre-fit....more questions, jeez
At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself what you are going to do with the car. If you are going for performance then adding headers and true duals is pretty much a must do. Any other mods you make will not be effective unless the engine can breath. However, if you are just into cruising then maybe performance mufflers (just for the sound) are enough for you. For me, my car is a cruiser that my wife and I can both enjoy. But... it's got a hot enough motor and suspension setup that I can go autocross for fun if I want. Or take it to the strip on a Friday night to play around.
One thing I have found out about modifying these cars. You can over-think anything. Just food for thought. Over-thought of course.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,743
Likes: 37
From: Stockton Ca
Like many I'm trying to sort this out and make the right decision.
MH makes the point that if the headers are not routed straight back,
you loose a lot of the benifits. Custom fab costs big $.
So now I wonder what is better through the stk X member?
LT headers or McJacks. The MJs seems to be the best of the shorties.
I have 74 w/2" smogger RH's, anything should be a big improvement.
I really want to make 300 rwhp!
R
MH makes the point that if the headers are not routed straight back,
you loose a lot of the benifits. Custom fab costs big $.
So now I wonder what is better through the stk X member?
LT headers or McJacks. The MJs seems to be the best of the shorties.
I have 74 w/2" smogger RH's, anything should be a big improvement.
I really want to make 300 rwhp!
R
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,593
Likes: 103
From: Southern Indiana
Like many I'm trying to sort this out and make the right decision.
MH makes the point that if the headers are not routed straight back,
you loose a lot of the benifits. Custom fab costs big $.
So now I wonder what is better through the stk X member?
LT headers or McJacks. The MJs seems to be the best of the shorties.
I have 74 w/2" smogger RH's, anything should be a big improvement.
I really want to make 300 rwhp!
R
MH makes the point that if the headers are not routed straight back,
you loose a lot of the benifits. Custom fab costs big $.
So now I wonder what is better through the stk X member?
LT headers or McJacks. The MJs seems to be the best of the shorties.
I have 74 w/2" smogger RH's, anything should be a big improvement.
I really want to make 300 rwhp!
R
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 153
Likes: 2
If you are going for 300 rwhp (which is roughly 373 at the crank) you are going to need a lot more than just headers. Especially if you still have the stock L82 which I believe was making around 250hp brand new. That's going to require at the very least a new cam and intake. Those smog heads really need to go also.
The cash register is going to start ringing real quick. Might want to take a long look at your expectations and budget. I totally blew my budget out of the water after I got started so I can sympathize. Best of luck to you however you decide to move forward. There are a lot of smart guys on here that really helped me out.
The cash register is going to start ringing real quick. Might want to take a long look at your expectations and budget. I totally blew my budget out of the water after I got started so I can sympathize. Best of luck to you however you decide to move forward. There are a lot of smart guys on here that really helped me out.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Lynchburg VA
If you are going for 300 rwhp (which is roughly 373 at the crank) you are going to need a lot more than just headers. Especially if you still have the stock L82 which I believe was making around 250hp brand new. That's going to require at the very least a new cam and intake. Those smog heads really need to go also.
The cash register is going to start ringing real quick. Might want to take a long look at your expectations and budget. I totally blew my budget out of the water after I got started so I can sympathize. Best of luck to you however you decide to move forward. There are a lot of smart guys on here that really helped me out.
The cash register is going to start ringing real quick. Might want to take a long look at your expectations and budget. I totally blew my budget out of the water after I got started so I can sympathize. Best of luck to you however you decide to move forward. There are a lot of smart guys on here that really helped me out.
For others who have true duals and headers let me see your pics and/or hear about your set up, i'm all ears.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,743
Likes: 37
From: Stockton Ca
So as to avoid any misunderstanding:
I already have 280 rwhp/ 315 rwtq
And that is w/2in RHs, 2 1/4 duals and H pipe.
I think this part of my post was missed:
"So now I wonder what is better through the stk X member?"
Shorties and RHs are a straight shot through the X member,
headers require some bends that are both expensive and can
rob power if not done right.
I wonder how much difference there is after installation?
R
I already have 280 rwhp/ 315 rwtq
And that is w/2in RHs, 2 1/4 duals and H pipe.
I think this part of my post was missed:
"So now I wonder what is better through the stk X member?"
Shorties and RHs are a straight shot through the X member,
headers require some bends that are both expensive and can
rob power if not done right.
I wonder how much difference there is after installation?
R