A-arm bolts pulling through washer - WTF ???
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,331
Likes: 479
From: Appleton Wisconsin
Make sure you recheck them again after a couple thousand miles I. A friend of mine put new rubber in about the same time in his 66 vette when I did mine. We were running at Road America a couple years ago and the rubber bushing slid out of the A frame when the bolt fell out. After that I checked mine and found out they were loose.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 6,266
Likes: 156
From: Galloway Twp. NJ
Cruise-In VII Veteran
my rubber bushings had the sleeves already installed.. and if you look at the pic of the washer were the bolt pulled through you can see where the serrations cut into the washer, so he does have the sleeves installed... but I guess that's what 90lbs of torque will do to that washer! LOL!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,428
Likes: 5
From: Japan
It's pretty clear given the diameter of those lockwashers vs. the I.D. of the sleeve that fits inside the bushing that 90 ft. lbs. of torque on that bolt is quite likely to shear the inside of that washer. If the lockwasher's O.D. were larger it wouldn't be able to act like a punch as it's doing in this case.
In the case of my own Vette I just torqued the bolts down by hand and used a drop of red Loctite on the threads. No problems after 10 years...
In the case of my own Vette I just torqued the bolts down by hand and used a drop of red Loctite on the threads. No problems after 10 years...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 8,918
Likes: 27
From: New Hill NC
There should be a lock washer too.
Last edited by wombvette; Dec 1, 2012 at 12:13 AM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 7
From: Beringen
You guys have it wrong. The washer is there, it's pulled into the washer. Look closely at the pictures.
With a rubber bushing the rubber is vulcanized to the inner sleeve. There is no sleeve to be mounted as with poly's.
With a rubber bushing the rubber is vulcanized to the inner sleeve. There is no sleeve to be mounted as with poly's.
Last edited by Belgian1979vette; Dec 1, 2012 at 05:22 AM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 7
From: Beringen
Anyway, just finished it. Installed the original washers. They didn't bend, no nothing. Not even the paint peeled off like it did on the washer in the picture.
Sure thing this was a faulty part. An El Cheapo washer in an otherwise not so cheap part. Sorry to say, but I got zipped here. Probably a Chinese washer.
Hate to think what could have happened when on the road. Those who are planning on buying this part are warned.
Last edited by Belgian1979vette; Dec 1, 2012 at 12:18 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 6,266
Likes: 156
From: Galloway Twp. NJ
Cruise-In VII Veteran
did you torque the original washer to 90 ft lbs like you did the first time??
I would say that you didn't get a an "El cheapo" part... you just torqued the CRAP out of it the first time.
admit it.. you screwed up by torquing the first washer to 90 ft lbs.
I would say that you didn't get a an "El cheapo" part... you just torqued the CRAP out of it the first time.
admit it.. you screwed up by torquing the first washer to 90 ft lbs.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,375
Likes: 1,593
From: Western NY
Think about it...a lug nut, on a 7/16" stud, is only torqued to 95 ft/lbs!!
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Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 76,656
Likes: 1,853
From: Jeffersonville Indiana 812-288-7103
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15
Below you'll find the torque specs for the a-arms from 1968-1982. I just revised this on our site.
I have personally done this more times than I have fingers and toes x ten! (I won't do it now
).
I never **ever** trust aftermarket manuals for torque specs.
It does appear that you have over torqued the bolts, I'm sorry! You are missing the lock washers that belong on there as well.
In most cases when the shafts are over torqued it will usually twist out the center of the control arm shaft bushing, strip the bolt and as bad as I hate to say it, distort the large washer. (same thing happens if you tighten them without a load).
All the rubber stock bushings have the toothsome spacer inside it that the washer crush's too. Poly bushings, honestly it's been too long since I've done poly that I don't remember, I'd have to look at one.
You can see them in this picture.
IMHO
Willcox
I have personally done this more times than I have fingers and toes x ten! (I won't do it now
). I never **ever** trust aftermarket manuals for torque specs.
It does appear that you have over torqued the bolts, I'm sorry! You are missing the lock washers that belong on there as well.
In most cases when the shafts are over torqued it will usually twist out the center of the control arm shaft bushing, strip the bolt and as bad as I hate to say it, distort the large washer. (same thing happens if you tighten them without a load).
All the rubber stock bushings have the toothsome spacer inside it that the washer crush's too. Poly bushings, honestly it's been too long since I've done poly that I don't remember, I'd have to look at one.
You can see them in this picture.
IMHO
Willcox
Last edited by Willcox Corvette; Dec 1, 2012 at 04:12 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 7
From: Beringen
In the info of Wilcox above, I see the lowers are torqued to 60-75 pounds for the 79. They are at 70 right now. Nothing moved.
If you look at the second pictures you will see that the top washers that came with the bushings has begun to collapse as well. Those were at 60.
Inner sleeve was fine. Bolts were not stripped as pictures show.
Last edited by Belgian1979vette; Dec 1, 2012 at 06:09 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 7
From: Beringen
Below you'll find the torque specs for the a-arms from 1968-1982. I just revised this on our site.
I have personally done this more times than I have fingers and toes x ten! (I won't do it now ).
I never **ever** trust aftermarket manuals for torque specs.
It does appear that you have over torqued the bolts, I'm sorry! You are missing the lock washers that belong on there as well.
In most cases when the shafts are over torqued it will usually twist out the center of the control arm shaft bushing, strip the bolt and as bad as I hate to say it, distort the large washer. (same thing happens if you tighten them without a load).
All the rubber stock bushings have the toothsome spacer inside it that the washer crush's too. Poly bushings, honestly it's been too long since I've done poly that I don't remember, I'd have to look at one.
You can see them in this picture.
IMHO
Willcox
I have personally done this more times than I have fingers and toes x ten! (I won't do it now
). I never **ever** trust aftermarket manuals for torque specs.
It does appear that you have over torqued the bolts, I'm sorry! You are missing the lock washers that belong on there as well.
In most cases when the shafts are over torqued it will usually twist out the center of the control arm shaft bushing, strip the bolt and as bad as I hate to say it, distort the large washer. (same thing happens if you tighten them without a load).
All the rubber stock bushings have the toothsome spacer inside it that the washer crush's too. Poly bushings, honestly it's been too long since I've done poly that I don't remember, I'd have to look at one.
You can see them in this picture.
IMHO
Willcox
So a workshop manual reprint from the original is not correct ?
BTW : there were some here suggesting 35 as bolt torque for those.
Last edited by Belgian1979vette; Dec 1, 2012 at 06:18 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 7
From: Beringen
As I mentioned in the other a-arm bushing post you were involved in, I've personally removed and subsequently replaced about two dozen control arm bushings, and have NEVER tightened a bolt enough to distort a washer to that degree, and have never seen one like that. In fact, WTH didn't you stop when the washer started to distort??
Think about it...a lug nut, on a 7/16" stud, is only torqued to 95 ft/lbs!!
But in all your wisdom I would like to know how you get your bushings out in 1 piece when they need replacing, so that you can compare the depth of the inner sleeve.
Anyway, for comparison sake, I'm going to run a file over one of those washers and compare it to the OEM's I have left over. Bet it's way harder.
Last edited by Belgian1979vette; Dec 1, 2012 at 06:17 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,272
Likes: 17
With all due respect, but did you ever remove a bushing from an A-arm? If you have anything to compare it to after taking it out, I would say you are some expert, but in my book that just isn't possible.
Anyway, just finished it. Installed the original washers. They didn't bend, no nothing. Not even the paint peeled off like it did on the washer in the picture.
Sure thing this was a faulty part. An El Cheapo washer in an otherwise not so cheap part. Sorry to say, but I got zipped here. Probably a Chinese washer.
Hate to think what could have happened when on the road. Those who are planning on buying this part are warned.
Anyway, just finished it. Installed the original washers. They didn't bend, no nothing. Not even the paint peeled off like it did on the washer in the picture.
Sure thing this was a faulty part. An El Cheapo washer in an otherwise not so cheap part. Sorry to say, but I got zipped here. Probably a Chinese washer.
Hate to think what could have happened when on the road. Those who are planning on buying this part are warned.
Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 76,656
Likes: 1,853
From: Jeffersonville Indiana 812-288-7103
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15
I would like to say I knew why.. but I really don't have a clue! Unless GM just decided it wasn't tight enough, it does seem odd.
I checked the differences between the 77 and the 78 assembly manuals and only found the nut number 7 to be a different part number.
I checked the differences between the 77 and the 78 assembly manuals and only found the nut number 7 to be a different part number.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,375
Likes: 1,593
From: Western NY
I've rebuilt suspensions for a living, among other things for, over 40 years. Those dont require the major amount of torque you used. All they do is retain the bushing from movement, if you found success with new washers, good for you, after you mis-installed the others, good for you. Personal attacks are a sign of inexperience and low I.Q. imho..try to manup
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,839
Likes: 45
From: nassau co. new york
this is a very interesting thread that i hope gets resolved.i question willcox as to what difference there is in tightening the bolts under load as opposed to on the workbench.in my mind when the car sits on the suspension with the bolts loose is the same as when on the workbench.in my case i did not change the springs so i measured the rod angle and tightened the bolts on my bench.(hard to reach uppers in place).the lowers i did on the ground with no issues.job done last year and have had no problems.
Last edited by billcarson; Dec 2, 2012 at 09:03 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,375
Likes: 1,593
From: Western NY
this is a very interesting thread that i hope gets resolved.i question willcox as to what difference there is in tightening the bolts under load as opposed to on the workbench.in my mind when the car sits on the suspension with the bolts loose is the same as when on the workbench.in my case i did not change the springs so i measured the rod angle and tightened the bolts on my bench.(hard to reach uppers in place).the lowers i did on the ground with no issues.job done last year and have had no problems.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,095
Likes: 299
From: Midlothian VA
this is a very interesting thread that i hope gets resolved.i question willcox as to what difference there is in tightening the bolts under load as opposed to on the workbench.in my mind when the car sits on the suspension with the bolts loose is the same as when on the workbench.in my case i did not change the springs so i measured the rod angle and tightened the bolts on my bench.(hard to reach uppers in place).the lowers i did on the ground with no issues.job done last year and have had no problems.