Cant Stop Turning Over
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From: Fairview PA
Cant Stop Turning Over
Ok... SO CONFUSED... 69 Vette... I have been doing a frame up restro on it... New everything... I have been wiring her up and all has been good. The motor has yet to be started for the first time. Today, I powered it up and it just started turning over (key in the off position). Like I said, new everything. What I am confused about it has the safety on the clutch and it was even locked out in reverse! I have it on the roller dollies else it would have lurched into something! I have a quick disconnect on the battery so I reached behind and shut the power that way. Now, when ever I apply the battery she starts turning over... It was not doing this in prior power on situations.
Any ideas?!
Brian
Any ideas?!
Brian
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From: Fairview PA
Ok update... And a big HUH??? I took off the red wire that is attached to the large post that the batt is run to on the starter. I hooked up the main batt lead and left off the red wire. I applied the batt and it rolled over not even a 1/2 turn and nothing. I hooked back up the red wire and applied power and it did not turn over. I had the clutch depressed and turned the key the on position and dash lit up (digital dash). Then I tried to see if the starter would engage in the start position. And low and behold it did! Now everything seems to be fine. Any idea what the heck could cause this? All I did was unhook the red wire to the starter then hook it back up.
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From: Fairview PA
Side question as well. Since the motor has never been started I know bad form to crank it over. Am I ok the dozen times it has rolled over in these issue? I had assembly lube on everything and I did not have the oil pressure sensor hooked up at the motor. The few times it turned over it already had oil starting to come out. opps forgot about hooking that up before all this testing... But good news that oil got up that high I guess so soon. So, I assume I will be ok? Or could this cause issues when I go to start her for the first time?
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From: Fairview PA
Further testings results... When you turn the key to the start position it turns over. When you let off the key it still turns over until you turn it to the off position. Then you can turn it back to the on position with out it turning over. Can repeat this every time. It is like it is stuck in the start position once it starts turning over.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2012
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From: Palm Harbor, Florida
I had a lawnmower(I do lawn care) and I had a starter that would stay engaged, thought it was part of the key/ignition system, it was the starter itself, I took it apart and lubed it, never had a problem since....I know its weird
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Gladstone MO
C3 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
It's easy to let the purple "start" wire get into the battery post, or one of the wires from the battery post get into the start terminal on the solenoid. From your description, I'd have to think your solenoid is the root of your problem.
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From: Fairview PA
I appreciate the responses. I bough this starter 2 years ago...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/su...model/corvette
The issue is I am doing a frame up, and did the motor first. Of course I never tried to start it, and I JUST got the new harness in the car... Go figure. I will try the test light. But question... How do I hook this up to test? The wires I have are as follows...
Black - Ground
Red - No idea... Alternator?
Yellow - Assume power from ignition. Think there might be another wire paired up on the yellow that was attached from the factory on the new harness.
Do I just ground the test light and hook to the yellow to see if it is still getting power from the ignition side? And if so, would that be the key cylinder bad? Also, if it still does not have power from the ignition I should assume the solenoid is sticking?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/su...model/corvette
The issue is I am doing a frame up, and did the motor first. Of course I never tried to start it, and I JUST got the new harness in the car... Go figure. I will try the test light. But question... How do I hook this up to test? The wires I have are as follows...
Black - Ground
Red - No idea... Alternator?
Yellow - Assume power from ignition. Think there might be another wire paired up on the yellow that was attached from the factory on the new harness.
Do I just ground the test light and hook to the yellow to see if it is still getting power from the ignition side? And if so, would that be the key cylinder bad? Also, if it still does not have power from the ignition I should assume the solenoid is sticking?
Last edited by bdchase73; Dec 3, 2012 at 08:11 AM.
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From: Fairview PA
I also found this on another forum... Matches what I have, but the purple and yellow were "fused" together from the factory on the harness.
STARTER WIRING NON HEI- NEED HELP/PICTURES TO CONFIRM:
1) "B" Post on solenoid; not usually marked-- top location--2 gauge--Black color--Goes to positive battery
2) "B" Post on solenoid; not usually marked--top location--12 gauge--Red Color--goes to fuse panel I believe
3) "S" Post on solenoid--closest to engine--12 gauge--Purple--goes to ignition switch
4) "R" Post on solenoid--farthest from engine--20 gauge--Yellow or other color--goes to positive side of ignition coil
5) Ground--starter mount bolt or a bell housing bolt--14 gauge--black
STARTER WIRING NON HEI- NEED HELP/PICTURES TO CONFIRM:
1) "B" Post on solenoid; not usually marked-- top location--2 gauge--Black color--Goes to positive battery
2) "B" Post on solenoid; not usually marked--top location--12 gauge--Red Color--goes to fuse panel I believe
3) "S" Post on solenoid--closest to engine--12 gauge--Purple--goes to ignition switch
4) "R" Post on solenoid--farthest from engine--20 gauge--Yellow or other color--goes to positive side of ignition coil
5) Ground--starter mount bolt or a bell housing bolt--14 gauge--black
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Hinckley OH
The above is the correct wiring. In a previous post you said the yellow wire might be paired up with another on the harness. If it's the purple wire that it's paired with and you have the other end of the yellow wire hooked to the coil, then it is backfeeding about 9 volts, I think, to the solenoid and that might be enough to keep the starter running but not enough to pull it in.
Last edited by my 76 ray; Dec 3, 2012 at 02:12 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2012
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From: Woodinville WA
how far have your wired the car? is the steering column installed? you said new wiring harness - was it a specific-for-your-car kit or did it require some plug construction.
For what you describe to happen, the purple wire is getting power while in the "run" position. It should only get power went the key is in the "start" position. Why it doesn't get it prior to "start" occuring.... I think the above people are right - the yellow wire is miswired somewhere.
For what you describe to happen, the purple wire is getting power while in the "run" position. It should only get power went the key is in the "start" position. Why it doesn't get it prior to "start" occuring.... I think the above people are right - the yellow wire is miswired somewhere.
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From: Fairview PA
I will dig into it again today. The yellow wire is paired with another, I assume the purple will need to look. The harness is built for the car and got it from Zip Corvette. The starter just has two posts, the one from the BATT and the one that the yellow and other wire go to. The ground as well, and that is attached to the starter bolt to the block.
Question, if the purple wire is not to be with the yellow. Where should it go?
Question, if the purple wire is not to be with the yellow. Where should it go?
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,317
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From: Marina CA
Originally the yellow wire was for battery voltage to the coil when cranking with an OEM style Delco starter. As stated in another post your probably getting a voltage back feed throught the yellow wire especially if you have the purple and yellow wires on the same terminal.
On the coil + terminal are 2 wires, the resistor wire which drops the voltage and the yellow wire. The resistor wire is back feeding a voltage down the yellow wire and engaging the solenoid. Take the yellow wire off, insulate the ring terminal on the end and tie it out of the way.
Have the same style starter on the 68 and a 69 Camaro and both have the yellow wire not hooked up.
On the coil + terminal are 2 wires, the resistor wire which drops the voltage and the yellow wire. The resistor wire is back feeding a voltage down the yellow wire and engaging the solenoid. Take the yellow wire off, insulate the ring terminal on the end and tie it out of the way.
Have the same style starter on the 68 and a 69 Camaro and both have the yellow wire not hooked up.
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From: Fairview PA
how far have your wired the car? is the steering column installed? you said new wiring harness - was it a specific-for-your-car kit or did it require some plug construction.
For what you describe to happen, the purple wire is getting power while in the "run" position. It should only get power went the key is in the "start" position. Why it doesn't get it prior to "start" occuring.... I think the above people are right - the yellow wire is miswired somewhere.
For what you describe to happen, the purple wire is getting power while in the "run" position. It should only get power went the key is in the "start" position. Why it doesn't get it prior to "start" occuring.... I think the above people are right - the yellow wire is miswired somewhere.
Starter has two posts.
1: Hookup to the larger post is the line from the batt and the red from the harness.
2: The yellow and the "other" wire that is physically connected from the harness manufacture. I think the wire color is purple. Will check tonight. This connection is going to the single smaller terminal on the starter. I assume it is the solenoid , but cant be sure as the starter is all integrated (cant see the solenoid as it is in the case). I have a link above to the starter I have.
3: The harness ground which is attached to the mounting bolt of the starter to the block.
Hope this info is helping guys. I do appreciate the time you are taking to try and help.
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From: Fairview PA
Originally the yellow wire was for battery voltage to the coil when cranking with an OEM style Delco starter. As stated in another post your probably getting a voltage back feed throught the yellow wire especially if you have the purple and yellow wires on the same terminal.
On the coil + terminal are 2 wires, the resistor wire which drops the voltage and the yellow wire. The resistor wire is back feeding a voltage down the yellow wire and engaging the solenoid. Take the yellow wire off, insulate the ring terminal on the end and tie it out of the way.
Have the same style starter on the 68 and a 69 Camaro and both have the yellow wire not hooked up.
On the coil + terminal are 2 wires, the resistor wire which drops the voltage and the yellow wire. The resistor wire is back feeding a voltage down the yellow wire and engaging the solenoid. Take the yellow wire off, insulate the ring terminal on the end and tie it out of the way.
Have the same style starter on the 68 and a 69 Camaro and both have the yellow wire not hooked up.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,520
Likes: 11
From: Hinckley OH
The purpose of the yellow wire is to provide 12 volts to the coil for starting. The 12 volts provide a better spark. If you have problems starting when that wire is disconnected, you may need to provide 12 volts only when starting. If you need it, I would recommend putting a relay in the yellow wire. Let us know if you need it and need help wiring it.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,548
Likes: 379
From: Woodinville WA
I appreciate the responses. I bough this starter 2 years ago...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/su...model/corvette
The issue is I am doing a frame up, and did the motor first. Of course I never tried to start it, and I JUST got the new harness in the car... Go figure. I will try the test light. But question... How do I hook this up to test? The wires I have are as follows...
Black - Ground
Red - No idea... Alternator?
Yellow - Assume power from ignition. Think there might be another wire paired up on the yellow that was attached from the factory on the new harness.
Do I just ground the test light and hook to the yellow to see if it is still getting power from the ignition side? And if so, would that be the key cylinder bad? Also, if it still does not have power from the ignition I should assume the solenoid is sticking?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/su...model/corvette
The issue is I am doing a frame up, and did the motor first. Of course I never tried to start it, and I JUST got the new harness in the car... Go figure. I will try the test light. But question... How do I hook this up to test? The wires I have are as follows...
Black - Ground
Red - No idea... Alternator?
Yellow - Assume power from ignition. Think there might be another wire paired up on the yellow that was attached from the factory on the new harness.
Do I just ground the test light and hook to the yellow to see if it is still getting power from the ignition side? And if so, would that be the key cylinder bad? Also, if it still does not have power from the ignition I should assume the solenoid is sticking?
Only the purple goes to the small post, reroute the yellow wire (see below).
The yellow, you'll have to tap into your fuse panel for an "always on" lug. They are there - I had the same issue with the EZ EFI I put on my C3.... it wouldn't start because it wasn't connected to the always on in start and run (but OFF when ignition switch is off)
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From: Fairview PA
WELL...
Last night I snipped the yellow with near the started and it worked! Will now turn over as desired! BUT, after reading the posts above I need to get power to the coil over that yellow with to a 12v always on connection? OR, should I see if it starts with just the resistance wire to the coil first?
Last night I snipped the yellow with near the started and it worked! Will now turn over as desired! BUT, after reading the posts above I need to get power to the coil over that yellow with to a 12v always on connection? OR, should I see if it starts with just the resistance wire to the coil first?
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,317
Likes: 22
From: Marina CA
If it won't fire up while in the crank position but fires up when you drop the key back to the run position, you'll need to add a relay to put cranking voltage to the coil.
You want to trigger the relay with the purple wire that energizes the starter. That way when the starter spins the coil gets cranking voltage.
Have HEI in the 68 so I didn't give a thought that you may be running a points distributor.
You want to trigger the relay with the purple wire that energizes the starter. That way when the starter spins the coil gets cranking voltage.
Have HEI in the 68 so I didn't give a thought that you may be running a points distributor.