406 build.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,253
Likes: 4
From: East Wenatchee (2hours from n e where) WA
Maco knows his stuff. You can do a lot with this long block. Are the compression numbers calced out? That outta be a nice torky little SBC. I like the Callies stuff, Does the piston use a modern streetable ring package? not sure how much cam clearance the rods give. with a mild HR it sould clear a std base circ. I'd go with std 4.125 bore. If you dont need a choke you might consider a HP instead of the Ultra. What rear gear? This will be a fun little Vette with great tork in the 3500 range.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
TQ can be calculated using CI X a Value determined by volumetric efficientcy.
Like a flat lifter cam is sub 90% VE and that makes for a multiplier like @ 1.08 X the CI High end roller cammed street motors that can do over 7000 rpm might approach 100% VE and get a multiplier like 1.34
So anyway the gains of the .030 over bore might be 6 ci and 6.5 foot pounds of TQ.
Mako - One very over looked item on this forum is nearly free additional power using a $249 dollar belt driven vacuum pump
Like a flat lifter cam is sub 90% VE and that makes for a multiplier like @ 1.08 X the CI High end roller cammed street motors that can do over 7000 rpm might approach 100% VE and get a multiplier like 1.34
So anyway the gains of the .030 over bore might be 6 ci and 6.5 foot pounds of TQ.
Mako - One very over looked item on this forum is nearly free additional power using a $249 dollar belt driven vacuum pump
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,736
Likes: 56
From: anchorage ak
[QUOTE=gkull;1582559218]TQ can be calculated using CI X a Value determined by volumetric efficientcy.
Like a flat lifter cam is sub 90% VE and that makes for a multiplier like @ 1.08 X the CI High end roller cammed street motors that can do over 7000 rpm might approach 100% VE and get a multiplier like 1.34
So anyway the gains of the .030 over bore might be 6 ci and 6.5 foot pounds of TQ.
Mako - One very over looked item on this forum is nearly free additional power using a $249 dollar belt driven vacuum pump[/QUOT
Not that I'm doubting the vacuum pump, but can you explain the nearly free horse power and what kind of gains. You've got my interest.
Like a flat lifter cam is sub 90% VE and that makes for a multiplier like @ 1.08 X the CI High end roller cammed street motors that can do over 7000 rpm might approach 100% VE and get a multiplier like 1.34
So anyway the gains of the .030 over bore might be 6 ci and 6.5 foot pounds of TQ.
Mako - One very over looked item on this forum is nearly free additional power using a $249 dollar belt driven vacuum pump[/QUOT
Not that I'm doubting the vacuum pump, but can you explain the nearly free horse power and what kind of gains. You've got my interest.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
[QUOTE=bluedawg;1582559446]
The more blowby the more gain. Lots of these higher end rotating kits have 1/16th inch piston rings and low tension oil scraper because of the higher pin. Most of the motors I work on have a dry sump setup, but we do work on belt driven crank case vacuum pumps. all of them are adjustable vacuum and we tend to keep them under 15 inches of vac.
Typical motors like these can gain @ 30 HP using a 15 inch set system.
Here is some info I just grabbed.
http://www.gzmotorsports.com/vacuum-pump-guide.html
TQ can be calculated using CI X a Value determined by volumetric efficientcy.
Like a flat lifter cam is sub 90% VE and that makes for a multiplier like @ 1.08 X the CI High end roller cammed street motors that can do over 7000 rpm might approach 100% VE and get a multiplier like 1.34
So anyway the gains of the .030 over bore might be 6 ci and 6.5 foot pounds of TQ.
Mako - One very over looked item on this forum is nearly free additional power using a $249 dollar belt driven vacuum pump[/QUOT
Not that I'm doubting the vacuum pump, but can you explain the nearly free horse power and what kind of gains. You've got my interest.
Like a flat lifter cam is sub 90% VE and that makes for a multiplier like @ 1.08 X the CI High end roller cammed street motors that can do over 7000 rpm might approach 100% VE and get a multiplier like 1.34
So anyway the gains of the .030 over bore might be 6 ci and 6.5 foot pounds of TQ.
Mako - One very over looked item on this forum is nearly free additional power using a $249 dollar belt driven vacuum pump[/QUOT
Not that I'm doubting the vacuum pump, but can you explain the nearly free horse power and what kind of gains. You've got my interest.
Typical motors like these can gain @ 30 HP using a 15 inch set system.
Here is some info I just grabbed.
http://www.gzmotorsports.com/vacuum-pump-guide.html
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,414
Likes: 59
From: Emerald Isle NC
I have a question regarding hood clearance. The parts list includes an RPM AirGap intake. I have a '69 big block hood that needs some small repairs. Will the BB hood solve any clearance issues I may have with the AirGap?
Thanks!!
Carter
Thanks!!
Carter
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Bluedawg
Guessing youre probably thinking of the electric vacuum pump for low vac situations, different piece.
I have 81 deg overlap and operating power brakes just fine with a simple vacuum reservoir. He should be Ok without a pump but they are nice to have no doubt.
I doubt the other type would benefit makos 406 build just my .02
Most that put them on see little if any gain at all.
Sure a looser all out deal like gkull suggested could get more from it.
Guessing youre probably thinking of the electric vacuum pump for low vac situations, different piece.
I have 81 deg overlap and operating power brakes just fine with a simple vacuum reservoir. He should be Ok without a pump but they are nice to have no doubt.
I doubt the other type would benefit makos 406 build just my .02
Most that put them on see little if any gain at all.
Sure a looser all out deal like gkull suggested could get more from it.
Last edited by cv67; Dec 15, 2012 at 10:49 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
Likes: 1,136
From: League City Tx
195cc heads and a little cam like that what are you thinking you need at least 227cc Eliminators .....
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Only kidding sounds like a good build, should make 5-550HP and very streetable, you have my permission to procede
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Only kidding sounds like a good build, should make 5-550HP and very streetable, you have my permission to procede
I agree... Its a nice build for sure... But it needs way more head, especially if its going anywhere near 7000 rpms....
I would have gone with the new AFR NPP 245 heads.....Plenty of flow out of the box and enough head for bigger motors down the road..... Or at a minimum the 227s for less hassle with the offset valvetrain stuff.
Either way the AFR 195s can make 550 hp but they are gonna need some porting for sure. We did a 420", 10.7-1, Ported AFR195s and a custom ground hyd roller for a 70 chevelle a few years ago... It dynoed 560 hp and ran 10.90s in a 3700lb chevelle. The heads needed a lot of work though..
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Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,736
Likes: 56
From: anchorage ak
Bluedawg
Guessing youre probably thinking of the electric vacuum pump for low vac situations, different piece.
I have 81 deg overlap and operating power brakes just fine with a simple vacuum reservoir. He should be Ok without a pump but they are nice to have no doubt.
I doubt the other type would benefit makos 406 build just my .02
Most that put them on see little if any gain at all.
Sure a looser all out deal like gkull suggested could get more from it.
Guessing youre probably thinking of the electric vacuum pump for low vac situations, different piece.
I have 81 deg overlap and operating power brakes just fine with a simple vacuum reservoir. He should be Ok without a pump but they are nice to have no doubt.
I doubt the other type would benefit makos 406 build just my .02
Most that put them on see little if any gain at all.
Sure a looser all out deal like gkull suggested could get more from it.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 122
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
I agree... Its a nice build for sure... But it needs way more head, especially if its going anywhere near 7000 rpms....
I would have gone with the new AFR NPP 245 heads.....Plenty of flow out of the box and enough head for bigger motors down the road..... Or at a minimum the 227s for less hassle with the offset valvetrain stuff.
Either way the AFR 195s can make 550 hp but they are gonna need some porting for sure. We did a 420", 10.7-1, Ported AFR195s and a custom ground hyd roller for a 70 chevelle a few years ago... It dynoed 560 hp and ran 10.90s in a 3700lb chevelle. The heads needed a lot of work though..
I would have gone with the new AFR NPP 245 heads.....Plenty of flow out of the box and enough head for bigger motors down the road..... Or at a minimum the 227s for less hassle with the offset valvetrain stuff.
Either way the AFR 195s can make 550 hp but they are gonna need some porting for sure. We did a 420", 10.7-1, Ported AFR195s and a custom ground hyd roller for a 70 chevelle a few years ago... It dynoed 560 hp and ran 10.90s in a 3700lb chevelle. The heads needed a lot of work though..
The heads referred to above must not have been the 195 Eliminators. I got 527 HP out of a 383 10.4 to 1 with the old competition ported AFR 195's
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,414
Likes: 59
From: Emerald Isle NC
Update:
Parts have been arriving. Head gaskets and rotating assy. should be in this week. Pistons had to be swapped due to the Mahle's being on backorder. They are sending an SRP equivalent. Still waiting on the oil pan, which may have to go back anyway. SHP block has a right-side dipstick. I think the pan on the parts list is for the left-side dipstick. Will check for sure upon arrival. Still some parts to order, but the big stuff is in, and will be going to the machine shop soon.
We will be doing the engine from my bud's pro-touring car at the same time. It has begun smoking when warm. Hopefully just a ring thing...
Carter
Parts have been arriving. Head gaskets and rotating assy. should be in this week. Pistons had to be swapped due to the Mahle's being on backorder. They are sending an SRP equivalent. Still waiting on the oil pan, which may have to go back anyway. SHP block has a right-side dipstick. I think the pan on the parts list is for the left-side dipstick. Will check for sure upon arrival. Still some parts to order, but the big stuff is in, and will be going to the machine shop soon.
We will be doing the engine from my bud's pro-touring car at the same time. It has begun smoking when warm. Hopefully just a ring thing...
Carter
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,619
Likes: 350
From: No Where USA
I don't know what your point is, but I have bought "cheap" parts off e bay and they have lasted. I also have bought high end parts that have broken. I bought the crank rods and pistons off of E Bay for my 540 big block I now still have it 10 years later and have gone in the tens with it. I brought it to a machine shop and had it all checked out and it was all fine.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 122
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Steel Cities Gray 71 With Black interior. Awesome! Too bad the Mahle's were not available. Mine were within less than 1/2 gram. Weight match pistons, rod big end, rod small end, rod total before shipping off to balance. With the SHP block it will be an awesome build.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 122
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Update:
Parts have been arriving. Head gaskets and rotating assy. should be in this week. Pistons had to be swapped due to the Mahle's being on backorder. They are sending an SRP equivalent. Still waiting on the oil pan, which may have to go back anyway. SHP block has a right-side dipstick. I think the pan on the parts list is for the left-side dipstick. Will check for sure upon arrival. Still some parts to order, but the big stuff is in, and will be going to the machine shop soon.
We will be doing the engine from my bud's pro-touring car at the same time. It has begun smoking when warm. Hopefully just a ring thing...
Carter
Parts have been arriving. Head gaskets and rotating assy. should be in this week. Pistons had to be swapped due to the Mahle's being on backorder. They are sending an SRP equivalent. Still waiting on the oil pan, which may have to go back anyway. SHP block has a right-side dipstick. I think the pan on the parts list is for the left-side dipstick. Will check for sure upon arrival. Still some parts to order, but the big stuff is in, and will be going to the machine shop soon.
We will be doing the engine from my bud's pro-touring car at the same time. It has begun smoking when warm. Hopefully just a ring thing...
Carter
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
540 I should have clarified...cheap stuff meaning those build a bomb shortblocks and imported heads you see on ebay. In the right hands yes not so nice stuff can be put together to last....in the right hands
But expecting a cheapie I beam to do the job where a quality H beam is needed etc
Would be fun to build Makos new motor up to do it up appearance wise as teh stocker thats in it now. Or all grey..kind of like an old Traco motor with stock looking covers /spacers
Car is nice!
But expecting a cheapie I beam to do the job where a quality H beam is needed etc
Would be fun to build Makos new motor up to do it up appearance wise as teh stocker thats in it now. Or all grey..kind of like an old Traco motor with stock looking covers /spacers
Car is nice!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,414
Likes: 59
From: Emerald Isle NC
Thanks for the kind remarks on the car. I've spent way too much on this car but it's been fun, and what I bought it for. So far:
Frame replaced
TKO-600 install (from TH400)
Rebuilt diff. R&P changed to 3.70 (from 3.36)
New fuel tank/SS lines
New SS brake lines
Wilwood D8-6/D8-4 brakes
TAs rebuilt
Radiator core support replaced
McJacks shortys/Allen's 2.5" chambered exhaust
Lars built Q-Jet
Seats redone (Vinyl)
New carpet (Front&Riser)
AC Deleted
Steering box rebuilt
Ball joints, Tie-rod ends, CA bushings, PS system totally redone (except pump).
Davis DUI distributor
Can't wait to get this motor going. Last thing I'll do is paint.
Frame replaced
TKO-600 install (from TH400)
Rebuilt diff. R&P changed to 3.70 (from 3.36)
New fuel tank/SS lines
New SS brake lines
Wilwood D8-6/D8-4 brakes
TAs rebuilt
Radiator core support replaced
McJacks shortys/Allen's 2.5" chambered exhaust
Lars built Q-Jet
Seats redone (Vinyl)
New carpet (Front&Riser)
AC Deleted
Steering box rebuilt
Ball joints, Tie-rod ends, CA bushings, PS system totally redone (except pump).
Davis DUI distributor
Can't wait to get this motor going. Last thing I'll do is paint.
Last edited by 71scgc; Jan 24, 2013 at 11:40 AM. Reason: update