ethanol effects on fuel pumps
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 178
Likes: 17
From: South Shore Massachusetts
I wonder what kind effect this has on the original rubber membrane lining in my 76 fuel tank. It is currently out of the car so maybe I will replace it with a membrane free tank. Any thoughts?
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,112
Likes: 28
From: Florida
i noticed recently that Lars and Cliff both have been alerting people to the effects of ethanol fuel on accelerator pumps . I'm now wondering if this ethanol fuel has been doing damage to fuel pumps also. just trying to prevent an issue. maybe someone has some more information on this fuel like evaporation issues etc, seems like in a few days the float bowl dries up and i have to add fuel through the bowl vent to keep from cranking the engine to fill the bowl. seems more of an issue than i thought.
Yes, your concerns about the fuel pumps are valid.
Here is some info from the product manager of fuel systems for Carter fuel pumps from just last year, 2011.
You can take his word as gospel.
It should go without saying, Federal Mogul didn’t revise their fuel pumps in the last several years for a non-existent problem.
Pontiac Carter pumps are the same internally as Chevy and other GM, available in the crimped oem style, if looks are important.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Here's the actual article you cut/pasted
http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...s/viewall.html
Note the text:
As low-level ethanol-blend fuel grew more common over the years, Federal-Mogul revised its fuel pump internals..........."
The 'grew common' the author refers to was in the 80's and 90's, not yesterday as you've assumed. E10 has been available across much of US and Canada for several decades, more than 30 years in the Pacific NW originally called 'gasohol'. How come failures of fuel pumps are unknown in these areas despite the high concentration of vintage vehicles?
http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...s/viewall.html
Note the text:
As low-level ethanol-blend fuel grew more common over the years, Federal-Mogul revised its fuel pump internals..........."
The 'grew common' the author refers to was in the 80's and 90's, not yesterday as you've assumed. E10 has been available across much of US and Canada for several decades, more than 30 years in the Pacific NW originally called 'gasohol'. How come failures of fuel pumps are unknown in these areas despite the high concentration of vintage vehicles?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 836
Likes: 26
From: Harrisburg Pa
Ethenol is bad stuff, real bad. It will eat your fuel lines and tank within a year and destroy your carb. Thanks to our Elected officials/ idiots/ crooks we the people dont have a choice. I run a additive in all my engines and mowers.
On the bright side!
Merry Christmas, Hope you all get new vette parts
On the bright side!
Merry Christmas, Hope you all get new vette parts
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 65
From: Wauconda IL
"Ethanol is corrosive"
Nuff said-
Just because you haven't personally experienced the negative effects of ethanol doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.
If ethanol is a non-issue, why should we care if it's 10%, 20% or 50%?
Ethanol is nasty stuff and the higher the concentration, the bigger the issues become in older cars.
You don't hear much about it in new cars because this issue has been engineered out of their systems over time.
Modern fuel injection systems are relatively immune since the pumps, lines/rails and injectors have very little, if any rubber parts and those parts are now made out of Viton or Nitrile.
Nuff said-
Just because you haven't personally experienced the negative effects of ethanol doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.
If ethanol is a non-issue, why should we care if it's 10%, 20% or 50%?
Ethanol is nasty stuff and the higher the concentration, the bigger the issues become in older cars.
You don't hear much about it in new cars because this issue has been engineered out of their systems over time.
Modern fuel injection systems are relatively immune since the pumps, lines/rails and injectors have very little, if any rubber parts and those parts are now made out of Viton or Nitrile.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,740
Likes: 3
From: Aurora Ontario
I have a had a bit of experience with this. Ethanol is okay if its used if the vehicle or boat is used daily. The probelm with ethonol is it attracts moisture. Premium gas up here does not have ethonol only regular (approximately 10%).
Avoid going to gas station that do not pump a lot of gas, the ethonol in the gas stations tank will attract moisure if it sits for along time.
I bought a boat in the US about 3 years ago and chased a miss and poor performance for about a year. I changed the usual, spark plugs, filters, assortment of electical components, etc. One day I decide to siffon out some of the gas from the bottom of the tank. I pulled out 1 1/2 gallons of water. Once I completely emptied the tank and replaced the gas the boat ran like new.
Its easy to test. Let the car or boat site for a day. siffon out enough gas to fill a clear glass. let it sit in the glass for about 1/2 hours to an hour. If there is water it will settle on the bottom. Gas is lighter then water. The water will always sit at the bottom of your tank. As you drive the water mixes with the gas and gives you poor performance.
No amount of stabilizer will elimintate the water. Stabilizers can not turn water into fuel. If they could our fuel crisis would be solved.
J
Avoid going to gas station that do not pump a lot of gas, the ethonol in the gas stations tank will attract moisure if it sits for along time.
I bought a boat in the US about 3 years ago and chased a miss and poor performance for about a year. I changed the usual, spark plugs, filters, assortment of electical components, etc. One day I decide to siffon out some of the gas from the bottom of the tank. I pulled out 1 1/2 gallons of water. Once I completely emptied the tank and replaced the gas the boat ran like new.
Its easy to test. Let the car or boat site for a day. siffon out enough gas to fill a clear glass. let it sit in the glass for about 1/2 hours to an hour. If there is water it will settle on the bottom. Gas is lighter then water. The water will always sit at the bottom of your tank. As you drive the water mixes with the gas and gives you poor performance.
No amount of stabilizer will elimintate the water. Stabilizers can not turn water into fuel. If they could our fuel crisis would be solved.
J
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,037
Likes: 14
From: Mobile Alabama
The 'grew common' the author refers to was in the 80's and 90's, not yesterday as you've assumed. E10 has been available across much of US and Canada for several decades, more than 30 years in the Pacific NW originally called 'gasohol'. How come failures of fuel pumps are unknown in these areas despite the high concentration of vintage vehicles?
Here is a report from the Oak Ridge National Labrotory - the U.S. Department of Energy’s research lab.
http://www.ornl.itp.govtools.us/docu...l%20Report.pdf
Can you give us an outside report backing your point of view?
Last edited by 74modified; Dec 21, 2012 at 10:33 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Beer will go skunky within minutes if left in direct sunlight but last for years if kept in the dark. Cut fruit will go brown if left exposed to air.
What happens on your boats, lawn mower or open cans of gas don't really apply to C3 Corvettes that have sealed fuel systems.
You guys can shout 'the sky is falling' all you want, please carry on.
Has nobody thought to mention to the OP that his symptoms of no start sound nothing like a bad fuel pump?
What happens on your boats, lawn mower or open cans of gas don't really apply to C3 Corvettes that have sealed fuel systems.
You guys can shout 'the sky is falling' all you want, please carry on.
Has nobody thought to mention to the OP that his symptoms of no start sound nothing like a bad fuel pump?
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Race Director
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,112
Likes: 28
From: Florida
OK, so our personal observations are not as good as yours.
Here is a report from the Oak Ridge National Labrotory - the U.S. Department of Energy’s research lab.
http://www.ornl.itp.govtools.us/docu...l%20Report.pdf
Can you give us an outside report backing your point of view?
Here is a report from the Oak Ridge National Labrotory - the U.S. Department of Energy’s research lab.
http://www.ornl.itp.govtools.us/docu...l%20Report.pdf
Can you give us an outside report backing your point of view?
Years does not mean decades.
Let the spinning contiunue....
