Cam card confusion
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 122
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
So let me see if understand.widdening the lsa would increase low rpm cylinder pressure( low rpm torque increase) and decrease high rpm cylinder pressure ( reducedpeak hp). I get this from the link kind of. Please correct my thought process. Inorder to increase low rpm torque you have to increase cylinder pressure at low rpm, right? In order to decrease max cylinder pressure and reduce the natural egr effect youd need to reduce overlap right? So if im correct by widdening the lsa your reducing the amount of time that the exhaust and intake valves are open at the same time? Which is what I thought a cam needed for nitrous or supercharged applications. Am i in the ball park or another state. Sorry to hijack your thread aviator.
LSA is designed and ground into the cam. It can't change. Intake valve closing point and static compression are the only 2 things that determine DCR. Four things can change the intake closing point. more or less duration, wider or narrower lsa, ground in advance, advancing or retarding cam. The first three are designed and ground in and can't change. If you are designing an engine and you want a certain operating range duration @ .050 is the best indicator of where in the rpm range your efficiency is. LSA is another way of fine tuning the characteristics of your build. Circle track cars that run in a narrow rpm range might run a 106 lsa to optimize the HP in a narrow rpm range. A Pro stock drag car with a powerglide and 15 to 1 might use a wider LSA like 116 to widen the powerband to be efficent through a wider rpm range and reduce cylinder pressures be able to run race fuel.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,170
Likes: 264
OK mako what is your plan for a tank of bad gas?
Pull over, and, do you carry the timing light in the car?
.....and hook it up
how long will this take?
But, i realize all your engines run on low octane, right? so you don't ever get bad gas, right?
So, this tool is only for adverturous guys that want to run high CR. And don't have an under dash timing control. NOT ME, NOT YOU.
Just a easy tool to make
Pull over, and, do you carry the timing light in the car?
.....and hook it up
how long will this take?
But, i realize all your engines run on low octane, right? so you don't ever get bad gas, right?
So, this tool is only for adverturous guys that want to run high CR. And don't have an under dash timing control. NOT ME, NOT YOU.
Just a easy tool to make
But a quicker and lot more expedient quick fix for a bad tank of fuel ; just pull off the vacuum advance hose.
I (can) only run 10 deg vacuum so no big deal - drove the car for 30 years with mechanical advance only - runs fine , no temp problems etc etc.
I have a golf tee for plugging the vacuum hose handy in the ashtray, along with slower advance springs
Real easy - no wrench's required !!
Last edited by QIK59; Jan 12, 2013 at 03:26 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,736
Likes: 56
From: anchorage ak
Actually a lot of time I DO carry a timing light - going to or coming from races (a lot of trunk room in a '59 !) LOL !
But a quicker and lot more expedient quick fix for a bad tank of fuel ; just pull off the vacuum advance hose.
I (can) only run 10 deg vacuum so no big deal - drove the car for 30 years with mechanical advance only - runs fine , no temp problems etc etc.
I have a golf tee for plugging the vacuum hose handy in the ashtray, along with slower advance springs
Real easy - no wrench's required !!
But a quicker and lot more expedient quick fix for a bad tank of fuel ; just pull off the vacuum advance hose.
I (can) only run 10 deg vacuum so no big deal - drove the car for 30 years with mechanical advance only - runs fine , no temp problems etc etc.
I have a golf tee for plugging the vacuum hose handy in the ashtray, along with slower advance springs
Real easy - no wrench's required !!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,170
Likes: 264
I carry a distributor wrench and make marks with a sharpie on the lock down flange of the distributor and the intake, with a 2 degree difference either way. Don't know about a 59, but on the 76 you pretty much need an extra battery to run the timing light, the cable won't reach the battery box.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 122
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,039
Likes: 62
From: Kona Hawaii
I carry a distributor wrench and make marks with a sharpie on the lock down flange of the distributor and the intake, with a 2 degree difference either way. Don't know about a 59, but on the 76 you pretty much need an extra battery to run the timing light, the cable won't reach the battery box.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,736
Likes: 56
From: anchorage ak
You ever think about running 1.6's? I thought about that, but the tech from comp said that with the xtreme energy series roller cams that 1.6's would be hard on the rest of the valve train.
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Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: anchorage ak
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
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From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 15,105
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From: central FL, near the beach.
i do have the base marked with white tape and a pencil mark. BUT it is a little less than .005" per degree 
1/16" is 13 degrees!
I found it impossible to make a 1 degree change. even 2* is iffy, but with really good eyes, if u can do it, that's great! with my 22" extention to the fender, 1 degree is easy, even in the dark
REE
to get zero deck with a min-stroker needs a 3.53 stroke, not 3.50. 3.53 is +.050, crank goes down an extra .025" and up an extra .025"
Maybe i'd get some used 327 pistons and try milling the tops off them for zero deck. They only need .090" milled off, and they could be turned down in a lathe, much cheaper! But then there is the cost to press off/on the rods
i don't like offset grinding the crank, risky with merikken workers
1/16" is 13 degrees!I found it impossible to make a 1 degree change. even 2* is iffy, but with really good eyes, if u can do it, that's great! with my 22" extention to the fender, 1 degree is easy, even in the dark
REE
to get zero deck with a min-stroker needs a 3.53 stroke, not 3.50. 3.53 is +.050, crank goes down an extra .025" and up an extra .025"
Maybe i'd get some used 327 pistons and try milling the tops off them for zero deck. They only need .090" milled off, and they could be turned down in a lathe, much cheaper! But then there is the cost to press off/on the rods
i don't like offset grinding the crank, risky with merikken workers
Last edited by Matt Gruber; Jan 13, 2013 at 07:28 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,170
Likes: 264
Matt,
I rec'd your original reply, that you have since deleted, about your solenoid set-up being simpler (not) than pulling a vacuum hose off.
Once installed ; I'm sure "throwing a switch under the dash" is more convenient to use but it is certainly not simpler to install and hide etc.
I try to live by the KISS principle.
I already have enough switch's under the dash : cooling fan electric clutch , outside gauge pack tach light , electric fuel pump and brake proportioning valve.
I like to keep my cars "sano" with no unnecessary wires or lines.
If I am going to do any further personal touches it's going to be something useful like some back-up lights.
I had to laugh someone earlier mentioned they only had 10 grand into their motor - hell I don't have 10 grand into my car total (in 39 years) ! LOL
I rec'd your original reply, that you have since deleted, about your solenoid set-up being simpler (not) than pulling a vacuum hose off.
Once installed ; I'm sure "throwing a switch under the dash" is more convenient to use but it is certainly not simpler to install and hide etc.
I try to live by the KISS principle.
I already have enough switch's under the dash : cooling fan electric clutch , outside gauge pack tach light , electric fuel pump and brake proportioning valve.
I like to keep my cars "sano" with no unnecessary wires or lines.
If I am going to do any further personal touches it's going to be something useful like some back-up lights.
I had to laugh someone earlier mentioned they only had 10 grand into their motor - hell I don't have 10 grand into my car total (in 39 years) ! LOL
Last edited by QIK59; Jan 13, 2013 at 02:14 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,736
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From: anchorage ak
Qik: i wanted a rock solid bottom end, and being an after market block most every thing was brand new, combine that with shipping everything i bought to alaska plus shooting for 500 horse and it cost money, definately not a poor mans hoby.10k was so easy to hit, had a hard time not spending more, there are several members that have spent more. So whats your combo? Whats it put out? What it cost? I bet buying your corvrette in 1973 it was cheap.
Matt with the sharpie trick i first set it at 34degrees, mark the flange and intake with one line, the advance it to 36 degrees the line becomes slightly split, easy to line it back up. Up here if you strwy to far from anchorage or Wasilla the chances of finding old or bad gas increase greatly.
Matt with the sharpie trick i first set it at 34degrees, mark the flange and intake with one line, the advance it to 36 degrees the line becomes slightly split, easy to line it back up. Up here if you strwy to far from anchorage or Wasilla the chances of finding old or bad gas increase greatly.
Last edited by bluedawg; Jan 13, 2013 at 02:12 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,170
Likes: 264
Qik: i wanted a rock solid bottom end, and being an after market block most every thing was brand new, combine that with shipping everything i bought to alaska plus shooting for 500 horse and it cost money, definately not a poor mans hoby.10k was so easy to hit, had a hard time not spending more, there are several members that have spent more. So whats your combo? Whats it put out? What it cost? I bet buying your corvrette in 1973 it was cheap.
Matt with the sharpie trick i first set it at 34degrees, mark the flange and intake with one line, the advance it to 36 degrees the line becomes slightly split, easy to line it back up. Up here if you strwy to far from anchorage or Wasilla the chances of finding old or bad gas increase greatly.
Matt with the sharpie trick i first set it at 34degrees, mark the flange and intake with one line, the advance it to 36 degrees the line becomes slightly split, easy to line it back up. Up here if you strwy to far from anchorage or Wasilla the chances of finding old or bad gas increase greatly.
Parts cost was for rings, gaskets, new GM swirl polished exhaust valves,
warranty cam & lifters from GM mechanic, crank grind and bearings, new C1 oil pan, new 2 1/2" ram horns, a few other pieces - probably less than $500 back then LOL
I hold the Cdn class record with my car.
Yep my California car was bought fully restored (as per 1974 std's : rebuilt motor, new paint & interior, new tires and brakes) for less than it would cost to put an interior in one today
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,284
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From: Hermosa
Qik: i wanted a rock solid bottom end, and being an after market block most every thing was brand new, combine that with shipping everything i bought to alaska plus shooting for 500 horse and it cost money, definately not a poor mans hoby.10k was so easy to hit, had a hard time not spending more, there are several members that have spent more. So whats your combo? Whats it put out? What it cost? I bet buying your corvrette in 1973 it was cheap.
At 500 HP I think the engine will only be the beginning of the expense related to that power level.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,736
Likes: 56
From: anchorage ak
In Anchorage Alaska it's easy to hit 10 grand doing any kind of project. Try that same project in 10 years and see how much it costs. One of the many disadvantages of getting older is remembering how much cheaper is used to be. With the value of the dollar falling off like it is now is always going to be the better time to spend that 10 grand because in a few years it may cost 15 grand.
At 500 HP I think the engine will only be the beginning of the expense related to that power level.
At 500 HP I think the engine will only be the beginning of the expense related to that power level.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,170
Likes: 264
I understand wanting a good foundation to build on.
The whole thing is about what level of power or speed you are content with , there are also other things (priorities) in life also.
Also on a C1 you are driveline breakage limited so that kind of determines what power level is prudent.
I have subsequently over the years cracked a rear end housing (faulty factory weld), broken axles, 3rd members and driveshafts LOL
Biggest thing I learned is don't fall for everything you read in magazines eg: You need a heavier d'shaft - Bull sh*# !!! .
Then the driveshaft is too stiff and rigid and you end up breaking everything else !
Last edited by QIK59; Jan 13, 2013 at 05:18 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,170
Likes: 264
Yeah you're right on some of the C3's
Last edited by QIK59; Jan 14, 2013 at 05:21 PM.