C3 Tech/Performance V8 Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine, Basic Tech and Maintenance for the C3 Corvette
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Ignition timing, what do I try to fix this issue

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jan 14, 2013 | 02:30 PM
  #1  
Haggisbash's Avatar
Haggisbash
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,156
Likes: 273
From: Dunedin NZ.
Default Ignition timing, what do I try to fix this issue

Hi, I have a 1970 SB coupe that I purchases 3 months ago, this is my first ever V8 in 45 years of driving. The motor just doesn't seem to develop the sort of power I expected and I toyed with the idea of having the M/T milled off the valve covers and substituted with C/K (for Clark Kent - mild mannered 350 :-). The engine is not original, the block seems to have started life in a truck but the heads are smog era big valve Corvette ones (I read somewhere these are prone to cracking so expect to change these out eventually) Anyway based on various articles I had read I thought a good place to start would be the ignition and timing so I have substituted the Mallory dual point distributor for an original single point Delco one because this has the vacuum advance where the Mallory was mechanical advance only. Timing with the Mech advance only is set at about 35 deg. On my first road test quite often as you just get on the gas after cruising on closed throttle or downhill the engine would give a large cough through the carb before accelerating. Has anybody got an idea what I could try next to fix this?
I couldn't find anyone local with a machine to set up the advance curve in the dist, I was told it was old school and should fit an HEI dist but an MSD one is around $900.00 here for the correct Corvette one. I have since replaced the mech advance springs (two heavy ones) for a black and silver one from the spring kit, this has improved things but I still get the odd cough especially if I get on the gas hard so I'm sure it is a timing issue but do I try more initial advance or an adjustable can?
Reply
Old Jan 14, 2013 | 02:47 PM
  #2  
Mike Ward's Avatar
Mike Ward
Race Director
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Default

Originally Posted by Haggisbash
I'm sure it is a timing issue
I'm not. Accelerator pump in the carb is the usual cause of the problem you describe.
Reply
Old Jan 14, 2013 | 04:01 PM
  #3  
general69's Avatar
general69
Advanced
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: angola new york
Default

we really need a few more specifics. For starters,what kind of carb and how big(cfm).
it could be the accelerator pump as Mike Ward said,but are the secondaries opening too soon? you may have to use a heavier spring.you might have a vacuum leak that could affect the whole works. i doubt that your timing has much to do with it from what you describe.
more info is always good.
Reply
Old Jan 14, 2013 | 07:04 PM
  #4  
Haggisbash's Avatar
Haggisbash
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,156
Likes: 273
From: Dunedin NZ.
Default

Originally Posted by general69
we really need a few more specifics. For starters,what kind of carb and how big(cfm).
it could be the accelerator pump as Mike Ward said,but are the secondaries opening too soon? you may have to use a heavier spring.you might have a vacuum leak that could affect the whole works. i doubt that your timing has much to do with it from what you describe.
more info is always good.
Carb is a 650cfm Holley and I doubt that it is the secondaries because this occurs with just a light push on the gas pedal, say less than half throttle. FWIW the problem was not there before I changed the distributor , I have not looked at the secondaries, it is on my list because the cars acceleration is so relaxed that I wonder whether they open very much at all If it was the accelerator pump would it need more gas or less? I see it is pretty easy to adjust. No obvious vacuum leaks, headlights and wiper door functioning as they should. Most of the other vac operated devices other than the hot/cold door in the heater duct have been disappeared from this car by a po.
Reply
Old Jan 14, 2013 | 07:30 PM
  #5  
Bud2's Avatar
Bud2
Bud2
Supporting Lifetime
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,237
Likes: 4
From: Warrnambool Victoria
Default

Download the papers from Lars. Papers covering timing and Holley carbs. You won't be sorry.

Bud.
Reply
Old Jan 17, 2013 | 07:11 PM
  #6  
Haggisbash's Avatar
Haggisbash
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,156
Likes: 273
From: Dunedin NZ.
Default

Thanks, I reset the accelerator pump clearance to a close 15 thou per the instructions ( it was too tight) and reset the idle mixture to 1 3/8 turns out ( any less and there was a slight flat spot off idle and popping in the exhaust on overun). Off idle pickup is much improved
:-)
Next step I,m considering is taking off the old Torker inlet manifold and adding a Performer EPS.
Reply
Old Jan 17, 2013 | 09:07 PM
  #7  
gcusmano74's Avatar
gcusmano74
Drifting
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,886
Likes: 9
Default

Everything needs to work together as a system. The intake manifold needs to match the cam which needs to match the gearing, etc. If you have a cam designed to make power in the higher RPM range, and an intake manifold and gearing designed for lower RPMs, you will end up with a slug.
For example, the LT1 cars used a rear gearset of 3.70 or 4.11. The base cars generally used a 3.36.
Reply
Old Jan 17, 2013 | 10:40 PM
  #8  
Haggisbash's Avatar
Haggisbash
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,156
Likes: 273
From: Dunedin NZ.
Default

I don't know what what cam is fitted to this engine but it sounds fairly tame. I understand that the Torker manifold was designed for a rev range of 2500 - 5500 so I figured that the Performer would be a better bet as it is supposed to be for Idle - 5500 rpm and is dual plane v's the Torker single plane. I would be keen to know if anyone has done this swap before and whether it offered much improvement!
Reply
Corvette Stories

The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts

story-0

10 Ugly Corvettes That We Still Kinda Love

 Joe Kucinski
story-1

Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer

 Brett Foote
story-2

10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)

 Michael S. Palmer
story-3

8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems

 Pouria Savadkouei
story-4

10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years

 Joe Kucinski
story-5

How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972

 Joe Kucinski
story-6

Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!

 Michael S. Palmer
story-7

Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!

 Joe Kucinski
story-8

150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter

 Joe Kucinski
story-9

8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time

 Verdad Gallardo
Old Jan 18, 2013 | 07:34 AM
  #9  
Matt Gruber's Avatar
Matt Gruber
Race Director
Active Streak: 30 Days
Community Influencer
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 15,063
Likes: 79
From: central FL, near the beach.
Default

edelbrock has sold over 1 million performer dual planes for a good reason- they work great on the street!
If all of them chime in, this will be a long thread!
Reply
Old Jan 18, 2013 | 01:07 PM
  #10  
Haggisbash's Avatar
Haggisbash
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,156
Likes: 273
From: Dunedin NZ.
Default

Thanks Matt, so I take it that the Performer EPS will be $324.00 well spent (that's what they cost here) = cost of two tanks of fuel, that's what it COSTS here:-(
Reply
Old Jan 18, 2013 | 01:17 PM
  #11  
Mike Ward's Avatar
Mike Ward
Race Director
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Default

Originally Posted by Matt Gruber
edelbrock has sold over 1 million performer dual planes for a good reason- they work great on the street!
If all of them chime in, this will be a long thread!
And GM sold multiple millions of their hi perf manifolds. Does the performer (or any aftermarket manifold) work that much better than an OEM manifold?

No.

Spend your money elsewhere.
Reply
Old Jan 18, 2013 | 02:46 PM
  #12  
Matt Gruber's Avatar
Matt Gruber
Race Director
Active Streak: 30 Days
Community Influencer
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 15,063
Likes: 79
From: central FL, near the beach.
Default

I'd use the performer 2101 or a stock one like mike ward says. The Torker that you have is a single plane that will pull in exhaust from valve overlap and make it soggy under 2500. With a performance cam, that can be a problem. Use a 1/4" thick 4hole gasket only.
The EPS doesn't have the spread bore pattern, which limits carb choices.

Last edited by Matt Gruber; Jan 18, 2013 at 04:00 PM.
Reply
Old Jan 18, 2013 | 02:46 PM
  #13  
MelWff's Avatar
MelWff
Race Director
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 18,742
Likes: 2,583
Default

what spring kit are you using? did you replace the nylon stop bushing with the bronze one that comes with the kit? You have 35 degrees mechanical at what RPM? what is the initial timing with the 35 total?
Reply
Old Jan 18, 2013 | 06:37 PM
  #14  
Haggisbash's Avatar
Haggisbash
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,156
Likes: 273
From: Dunedin NZ.
Default

The only spring kit I could get locally was a Mr Gasket set, turns out I was sold a dud as it was for an HEI dist but I had already opened it so decided to try the springs anyway the rest of the kit was useless for my stock dist. A light black spring and silver intermediate one seemed to work well and 35 deg was all in by 2500 RPM. I may try a gold spring instead of the black to shift the "all in" a little higher as the motor is still a little flat off the line but this could be the single plane manifold? I haven't yet re-checked the idle timing with the vac disconnected to see what it is.
Seems based on Mike's advise a std inlet manifold would be sufficient for my use but an alloy original looks like it would cost me more than a Performer EPS, I will have a look on e bay for a 2101. There is an EPS on e bay with a broken stud in it which may sell for a reasonable price, (funny thing its the same stud as is broken on the manifold on the engine at the moment which is so hard I haven't been able to drill it out).
Reply

Get notified of new replies

To Ignition timing, what do I try to fix this issue





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:58 AM.

story-0
10 Ugly Corvettes That We Still Kinda Love

Slideshow: 10 ugly Corvettes that we still kinda love.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-06-03 10:34:17


VIEW MORE
story-1
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer

A lot of money has changed hands at the online auction house over the years.

By Brett Foote | 2026-06-03 10:21:50


VIEW MORE
story-2
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)

Slideshow: 10 great gifts Corvette enthusiasts actually want for Father's Day!

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-06-03 15:43:40


VIEW MORE
story-3
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems

Slideshow: These are the quirks, annoyances, and oddly lovable problems that every Corvette owner eventually learns to live with.

By Pouria Savadkouei | 2026-05-28 09:31:39


VIEW MORE
story-4
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years

Slideshow: 10 reasons why the C6 Z06 is still a performance benchmark after 20 years.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-27 17:20:09


VIEW MORE
story-5
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972

Slideshow: How much horsepower every Corvette engine lost in 1972.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-27 16:54:53


VIEW MORE
story-6
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!

Slideshow: How to Protect A Convertible Top: 10 DOs & DON'Ts

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-04-03 00:00:00


VIEW MORE
story-7
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!

Slideshow: The 10 most explosive Corvettes ever built based on power-to-weight ratio.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-20 07:23:03


VIEW MORE
story-8
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter

Slideshow: From C1 to C8 we compare every Corvette generation by the numbers.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-12 16:54:12


VIEW MORE
story-9
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time

Slideshow: Some Corvette pace cars became collectible legends, while others perfectly captured the look and attitude of their era.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-11 09:50:51


VIEW MORE