alternatives to rag joint
02-22-2013, 05:17 PM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Member Since: Nov 2012
Location: Chesapeake Virginia
Posts: 672
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
alternatives to rag joint
Hey guys, as the title says, are there any alternatives to the factory rag joint between the steering column and the box?
02-22-2013, 07:37 PM
#2
Race Director
02-22-2013, 07:38 PM
#3
Instructor
Borgeson sells a universal joint that replaces the rag.........I put one in with their unit, not sure if it fits the stock unit, but worth the call to find out.......
The uni takes all the play out......
The uni takes all the play out......
02-22-2013, 07:41 PM
#4
Drifting
http://www.flamingriver.com/index.php/products/c0005
02-22-2013, 07:56 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
Vettes flex and the rag joint is the flexible part between the frame and steering wheel.
02-22-2013, 08:26 PM
#6
Drifting
Have you guys heard of anyone having a problem after swapping a ragjoint for a U-joint?
02-22-2013, 09:03 PM
#7
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Jul 2000
Location: Saginaw Michigan
Posts: 6,001
Likes: 0
Received 98 Likes
on
81 Posts
Back 43 years ago, I was a product engineering design group supervisor. I was responsible for flexible steering shaft couplings and power steering pressure hoses for the C2/C3 Corvette and all the other GM vehicles in the 70s and early 80s. So I do have quite a bit of experience with these products.
In those days, virtually 100% of the General Motors passenger cars had a rigid frame and a seperate body mounted to that frame with rubber body mounts. Those General Motors vehicles also utilized a rubber element between the steering column (part of the body) to the steering gear (part of the rigid frame.) There were four basic reasons why there was a flexible disc (with 4 or 7 laminations of neoprene rubber and cotton cloth) in the shape of a flexible steering shaft coupling assembly. The functions of that part were as follows:
1). Absorb rough road shocks from reaching the steering wheel.
2). Isolate road and hydraulic noise from being transmitted into the driver compartment.
3). Allow for body to frame tolerance and minor movement between the body and frame as the vehicle is being driven.
4). Accommodate any design angle between the steering column and the steering gear.
5). Provide a reliable ground path for the horn.
I think that there are universal joints that have a rubber damper element as part of the design. This would allow the part to accomplish the function of #1 , #2, and #4 above. I'm not sure about #5.
However, a universal joint is very rigid therefore it wll not allow for any misalignment of the steering column to the steering gear. Also a universal joint will not allow for body to frame movement.
Our fear, as the design responsible steering Division, was that the lower column bearing and the lower steering column jacket would not be able to absorb any movement of the body to the frame during the life of a car. Therefore a rubber element between the two was required.
Now I am fully aware that there are many aftermarket steering systems for the C2/C3 Corvettes that now incorporate a universal joint. Also I am fully aware that quality flexible coupling assemblies are becoming quite rare.
So the best that I can do is try to council people making installations with rigid univeral joints is to keep a close eye on the installation and be alert to any looseness or degradation of the lower steering column bearing.
Jim
In those days, virtually 100% of the General Motors passenger cars had a rigid frame and a seperate body mounted to that frame with rubber body mounts. Those General Motors vehicles also utilized a rubber element between the steering column (part of the body) to the steering gear (part of the rigid frame.) There were four basic reasons why there was a flexible disc (with 4 or 7 laminations of neoprene rubber and cotton cloth) in the shape of a flexible steering shaft coupling assembly. The functions of that part were as follows:
1). Absorb rough road shocks from reaching the steering wheel.
2). Isolate road and hydraulic noise from being transmitted into the driver compartment.
3). Allow for body to frame tolerance and minor movement between the body and frame as the vehicle is being driven.
4). Accommodate any design angle between the steering column and the steering gear.
5). Provide a reliable ground path for the horn.
I think that there are universal joints that have a rubber damper element as part of the design. This would allow the part to accomplish the function of #1 , #2, and #4 above. I'm not sure about #5.
However, a universal joint is very rigid therefore it wll not allow for any misalignment of the steering column to the steering gear. Also a universal joint will not allow for body to frame movement.
Our fear, as the design responsible steering Division, was that the lower column bearing and the lower steering column jacket would not be able to absorb any movement of the body to the frame during the life of a car. Therefore a rubber element between the two was required.
Now I am fully aware that there are many aftermarket steering systems for the C2/C3 Corvettes that now incorporate a universal joint. Also I am fully aware that quality flexible coupling assemblies are becoming quite rare.
So the best that I can do is try to council people making installations with rigid univeral joints is to keep a close eye on the installation and be alert to any looseness or degradation of the lower steering column bearing.
Jim
Last edited by Jim Shea; 02-23-2013 at 07:53 AM. Reason: Added a 5th function
The following users liked this post:
Adollarwodbnice (04-28-2022)
02-22-2013, 09:16 PM
#8
Drifting
Back 43 years ago, I was a product engineering design group supervisor. I was responsible for flexible steering shaft couplings and power steering pressure hoses for the C2/C3 Corvette and all the other GM vehicles in the 70s and early 80s. So I do have quite a bit of experience with these products.
In those days, virtually 100% of the General Motors passenger cars had a rigid frame and a seperate body mounted to that frame with rubber body mounts. Those General Motors vehicles also utilized a rubber element between the steering column (part of the body) to the steering gear (part of the rigid frame.) There were three basic reasons why there was a flexible disc (with 4 or 7 laminations of neoprene rubber and cotton cloth) in the shape of a flexible steering shaft coupling assembly. The functions of that part were as follows:
1). Absorb rough road shocks from reaching the steering wheel.
2). Isolate road and hydraulic noise from being transmitted into the driver compartment.
3). Allow for body to frame tolerance and minor movement between the body and frame as the vehicle is being driven.
4). Accommodate any design angle between the steering column and the steering gear.
I think that there are universal joints that have a rubber damper element as part of the design. This would allow the part to accomplish the function of #1 , #2, and #4 above.
However, a universal joint is very rigid therefore it wll not allow for any misalignment of the steering column to the steering gear. Also a universal joint will not allow for body to frame movement.
Our fear, as the design responsible steering Division, was that the lower column bearing and the lower steering column jacket would not be able to absorb any movement of the body to the frame during the life of a car. Therefore a rubber element between the two was required.
Now I am fully aware that there are many aftermarket steering systems for the C2/C3 Corvettes that now incorporate a universal joint. Also I am fully aware that quality flexible coupling assemblies are becoming quite rare.
So the best that I can do is try to council people making installations with rigid univeral joints is to keep a close eye on the installation and be alert to any looseness or degradation of the lower steering column bearing.
Jim
In those days, virtually 100% of the General Motors passenger cars had a rigid frame and a seperate body mounted to that frame with rubber body mounts. Those General Motors vehicles also utilized a rubber element between the steering column (part of the body) to the steering gear (part of the rigid frame.) There were three basic reasons why there was a flexible disc (with 4 or 7 laminations of neoprene rubber and cotton cloth) in the shape of a flexible steering shaft coupling assembly. The functions of that part were as follows:
1). Absorb rough road shocks from reaching the steering wheel.
2). Isolate road and hydraulic noise from being transmitted into the driver compartment.
3). Allow for body to frame tolerance and minor movement between the body and frame as the vehicle is being driven.
4). Accommodate any design angle between the steering column and the steering gear.
I think that there are universal joints that have a rubber damper element as part of the design. This would allow the part to accomplish the function of #1 , #2, and #4 above.
However, a universal joint is very rigid therefore it wll not allow for any misalignment of the steering column to the steering gear. Also a universal joint will not allow for body to frame movement.
Our fear, as the design responsible steering Division, was that the lower column bearing and the lower steering column jacket would not be able to absorb any movement of the body to the frame during the life of a car. Therefore a rubber element between the two was required.
Now I am fully aware that there are many aftermarket steering systems for the C2/C3 Corvettes that now incorporate a universal joint. Also I am fully aware that quality flexible coupling assemblies are becoming quite rare.
So the best that I can do is try to council people making installations with rigid univeral joints is to keep a close eye on the installation and be alert to any looseness or degradation of the lower steering column bearing.
Jim