Is it possible to have the timing or something else out by 180 degrees and for the car to run correctly?

I dont know for sure yet that its exactly 180 degrees but will check tomorrow so no flaming just yet, lol.

Background to question.
I have an 81 that I have just replaced the carb and dizzy on to get her running as the original carb is in need of a rebuild.

On replacing the dizzy, I did it the lazy way. Took the old one out and put the new one in, exactly the same postion as the old one came out, rotor pointing the same way etc. HT leads were then put on in same place as they were removed.

None of the above was verified, ie TDC or firing order.

Anyway, car started and ran fine, drives up and down the road fine.

Put the timing light on her and I cant see the timing mark. Used the button on the light to advance it by 90 degrees ( as far as it will advance ) and still I see no mark.

At this point Im assuming something is at least 90 degrees out.
If the balancer has slipped which is most probable, is it likely to have slipped that much? Other threads seem to suggest slippage of between 20-30 degrees.

If the balancer has not slipped, my next thing to try is see what happens when I put the light on plug 4 as this fires 180 degrees after #1.
If this shows the timing mark to be about correct, does this mean the dizzy is in 180 degrees off?

Just trying to get it straight in my head.
I know the 180 out debate can cause heated comments but humour me. Is it possible?

 

If it was 90 or 180 out you would not be driving up and down the road. It would sputter spit and die pretty quickly. Sounds like the balancer ring has slipped

 

No, not possible. If the dizzy is 180 out the engine will not start. Just backfire occasionally. I've been there, got the T-shirt.

Most likely your balancer has slipped, although it is amazing how far you can have the timing off and the engine will still run...

 

It would kick and buck and backfire and spit fire. It would not run. Unless the plug cable order was screwed up enough to allow it to run. Not likely...

 

If the rotor is in 180 degrees out, it would be trying to fire no. 6. It's hard to believe that the car would run fine when it's out some large number of degrees. I have enough fun getting it to run right when everything is in correctly.

See if the keyway in the crank snout and the timing mark on the balancer are lined up. You'll need to take the bolt and big washer off the crank nose to see the keyway.

 

OK then so we are looking at a slipped balancer.

Next dumb question. I have the Innova 3568 timing light and in the manual, it says one of the icons on the screen is an 'ignition Mode Indicator and Symbol' and it has the number 4 inside it. I see no way of changing it and all pictures on line seem to show it this way. I wondered if this was set for 4 cylinders instead of 8 but at the end of the day, the strobe would only fire when the HT lead fired so I guess thats a m00t point!!! lol.

Just for kicks, will try putting the inductive clamp on #4 and see what happens.

 

That's not the lazy way, that's way you're supposed to do it. No need to set the engine to TDC or any other mark. If you don't crank the engine while the distributor is out and reinstall it with the rotor and housing pointing at exactly the same spots, the timing will not be changed.

To verify if the damper ring has slipped, put #1 at TDC and look at the marks.

 

Is the "4" four stroke or four cylinder? What do the instructions say?

Can't use the mark on the balancer to find TDC, if it may have slipped. Checking the crank keyway seemed easier than pulling all plug wires on the left bank, removing the spark plug and valve cover, then turning the engine over to get on compression on no. 1. I only have an alternator, so the front of mine is relatively open.

 

180° out? Wouldn't that mean your plugs are firing on the exhaust stroke? Pretty sure that won't run too well.

This balancer ...



Had slipped well over 90°

just saying

 

I agree, the rubber in that balancer is shot.
On a new balancer the timing mark is 10 degrees CCW to the key way as viewed from the front, so that one does not look slipped.

 

That means 4 stroke vs 2 stroke.
I have the next light up, Innova 5568 and that function is selectable.

Temporarily, find TDC by hand and mark the damper with chalk or paint. Set the timing and replace the damper when you can.

 

Hrm.. you're right, I never noticed that. When I checked timing prior to replacing that, it was WAY the hell out in relation to the tape. So I can only surmise the P.O. was using some other frame of reference.

 

You're not a car guy without that T-Shirt

 

I was surprised when I read this last night because I was sure that the keyway and the timing mark were lined up on mine. I have the original engine as a spare on an engine stand and last night I went out in the garage and pull the balancer-retaining bolt and washer off and confirmed what I thought. I did a search on timing marks and found that "lined up" on a pre-69 balancer means that the timing mark is 2 degrees before the keyway centerline (2 degrees counterclockwise when viewed from the front) and on 69 and later the timing mark is 10 degrees CCW from the keyway centerline.

Maybe I'm the only one here that didn't know that. My Vette was built in early February 1969, so it's logical that the engine was "pre-69".

 

Super6, I didn't know about the pre 69 being at 2 degrees.

Jotto, you say your Vette ran fine so get a different timing light and you'll be OK.

Regards, Pete.

 

That's the catch of trying to help somebody on here, you don't know what you don't know and some of what you think you're rock solid on turns out to be wrong or not right all the time. When I say "you", I mean me. I guess that's how you learn some more.

I don't like being wrong, but I'm so good at it.

 

Man oh man, as I read this thread I was getting pretty excited hoping you guys had figured it out by the end. I have the same problem as the beginning of this thread, no visible timing mark on the damper when trying to time it. It's a 79 L82 motor completely stock. I thought my troubles would be eliminated when I too changed out the balancer thinking it was the outer ring that had slipped. Installed a new one and tried to time it. Still no timing mark in sight. I have double checked everything else mentioned as above (correct wire order, #1 piston drivers side, etc etc) Could the dizzy have been replaced by bubba in the past to where its 180 out? My next move is to use a piston stop and mark TDC on the new balancer and go from there, but what in the world caused it to be so far off?