Hi, I bought a new to me 79 that had a Borgeson box installed. With standard alignment, it's downright scary. The rest of the suspension is fine. Thanks, Tim

 

We need more info mate, what's the car doing? Slop? is it twitchy?

I've got the Borgeson conversion and it's great, 1/8" toe (from memory), albeit with VBP top a-arms with more caster.

Everything in the suspension and steering is new, the power steering valve drove me crazy so it had to go

C3's lack caster in stock form so that the manual steering effort wasn't too heavy, the more caster the better (to a point), modern cars have lots of caster which is why modern cars don't have manual steering anymore ( and due to convenience).

 

It is real "Floaty". The faster you go the worse it gets. It also does not like to return to center. I did a early morning blast today on a deserted 4 lane to about 80 & I could probably move the steering wheel 1.5" either way hardly affecting direction.

Thanks, Tim

 

sounds like you have other problems. The Borgeson box should drive fine with the stock alignment settings and definitely not have 3" of play in the wheel

 

Everything is basically new. The only thing my mechanic (GM Tech) saw, is the ball joints seem a little tight.

 

Yikes.........You're right, one bolt fell out of rag joint & the other one was finger tight.

 

I think the original setting for the Borg. is 3-4 Positive Caster. With the Borg, I used Shark Bite upper A-arms & set my toe in at .5 degrees. Approx. 1/8 inch toe in. & Positive 5 1/2 degree's Caster. I love the feel in & out of the corners, & no more wandering on the highway like the stock system. Gene

 

Get yourself a solid joint from Borgeson, they're top quality and won't break like the rubber ones, I had a good quality rubber one and it still broke.

People will say you need the rubber one but you don't,

 

while your at it find a new mechanic, or get this one a new pair of glasses

 

Yes, I think you're right!

 

Sigh...

Are you implying the solid joint is not suitable? if so say why?

Most of us pro touring guys run them with no complaints. I've never heard of anyone who has had trouble with them.

Plenty of people post with crap steering and find out they have a broken rubber joint (probably made in China).

EDIT - I think I may have thought you were having a pop at me! Not sure now....damn computers!

 

I bought the kit with the rubber rag joint! After reading about the failures of them, I ordered a Stainless, Special 1"48x 8DD 114350 103.24 With Freight. I can't feel any difference in handling, But my mind is at ease. Gene

 

No, He wasn't taking a shot at you. He was recommending I find someone more thorough & he is absolutely correct!

 

Thank you very much for that part number.....It is now in my cart @ Summit. I am pretty disappointed they would sell a setup with the rubber disc. The tech was "surprised" that it came loose & didn't offer any info of the availability of the U-Joint. Ahhhhg!

 

I'm going to eventually go with a u- joint also. I have the rag joint and it is about 1/2'' from the header pipe. I don't think the rubber will be able to take the heat for a lot of miles.

my mounting bolts came loose after about 800 miles, I even used lock tite on them and the retaining nuts. I got a weird cicking sound when turning the wheel and it was the loose ragjoint. scary stuff.

 

I had an issue with the joint that goes into the steering pitman arm not seating enough (ran out of thread) and the car did exactly what you have. I have a jeep box conversion. I ended up just putting a few washers in so that the nut could be fully tightened not bottoming on the threads, this allowed the taper to fully seat.

 

alnukem,

GM and other manufacturers have put rag joints into tens of millions of vehicles in markets all over the world. Do you think that they would do this if there was a safety (read WARRANTY) problem with them?

The main reason that they are found on Corvettes is that the Vette is of body-on-chassis design, and there are rubber body mounts on all post '72 (I think!) cars that, with time, could settle and throw out the alignment of the steering shaft and steering box. A uni joint will not allow for this, a rag joint will.

For that reason, you should stick with a QUALITY rag joint such as manufactured by GM or a company like Borgeson. I know that there are Forum members who've got a uni joint fitted with no apparent problems, but consider this: If a cheaper uni joint would do the same job as a more expensive rag joint, why did GM use them in the first place?

Finally, you noticed that the rag joint in your car had all but fallen apart, but still enabled the car to be driven, despite it telling you that it was about to fail completely. Only after checking that the rag joint was the loose link in the chain were you able to easily observe it. Would a failing uni joint be that easy to find?

Tread carefully, grasshopper.

Regards from Down Under.

aussiejohn

 

Same U joint I used on my Borgeson upgrade 4 years ago.No problems since..Didn't care for those rubber rag joints,replacement ones aren't made right in my opinion.
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Should be a shoulder bolt here,Without one the rubber can be over compressed.The bolt threads can also eat the rubber.With a little finesse you can get the steering shaft lined up with the Borgeson box almost dead on....
Thank goodness you didn't loose it on that test run with the rag joint hanging on like that!!

 

I didn't like the rubber coupler that Borgeson supplied, the stock one felt stiffer, so I made a hybrid coupler with the borgeson half at the box and the corvette half at the shaft, and using the stock bolts.

The stock coupler has some steel mesh and I think that also lets the horn relay find ground.

As far as compliance, it is kind of instructive to have somebody crank the wheel while you watch the steering box twist the frame (also you can note the effect of castor). With a solid universal that has to be a hard coupling back into the steering column. I am in AussieJohn's camp!