I am noticing some valve train noise at start-up after my retro-roller conversion. It clears/declines after 5-10 seconds. The noise is greater near the front of the engine. I am going to check/set valve lash one final time just in case. I installed my first set of roller rockers; Comp Ultra Pro Magnums and may not have set the lash properly. Will advise.

Is that noise typical at start-up with hydraulic retro-roller? I am running 15w-40 conventional dyno oil. I used to run 20w-50 with my flat-tappet cam.

NOTE: I also installed a new fuel pump pushrod. It is the type where the rod is hollow and has insert pressed into the end that rides on the roller cam lobe. Could it be the problem? I also have the nylon cam button... could it be smacking the timing cover? The clearance at the timing cover was close enough to transfer my test paint but not to wipe the timing cover surface clean with the button.

The roller cam kit is the very complete Comp XE retro roller K-kit (.495/.502 I think). Could the lifters be bleeding down between uses? I am not driving it daily as I am waiting for a hood release cable (can't close the hood completely so it is sitting... I start it occasionally to check for leaks/issues).

An added note: I installed the new pushrods that came with the kit (pushrods, lifters, cam, nylon button, timing set, springs, seals, retainers and locks). Installation instructions from Comp call for 1/2 turn after 0-lash and to use the new pushrods as they mate to the lifter and rocker pockets. I will re-check the lash on all rockers today. The rockers are 1.52 ratio.

 

Sounds like you need to check your lash adjustment. Hydro/roller should be quiet, unless it sat for like months or so then I could see some bleed out of the lifters.

 

I tried to set it at 1/2 turn after 0-lash. Should I step it up to 3/4-1 turn?

 

A few threads on this subject lately. Your oil is too high of viscosity at start up and cold running IMO. Try 5W 30 or thereabouts. Would also recommend a Synthetic oil. Both will flow much better on start up and should prevent your lifter noise issue at start up.
Read this. Read it twice or three times. It's really informative.

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php...tor_oil_basics

 

With all new valve train components, you shouldn't have this much noise during startup.

It may be of some benefit to remove one of the valve covers start up to observe your valve train during start up and listen to any noise present. You should see oil squirting out of the oiling hole in the back of the rocker above the pushrod mating surface as soon as the engine starts running. If you don't and there's plenty of valve train chatter, it could be one of two things. First, the rocker isn't set at 1/2 turn down from "zero" lash and is waiting for the lifter to pump up to take up the slack, or second, the lifters are collapsing while the engine just sits due to high valve spring rates.

First, try setting the valve lash with the engine running. (You should be able to find an explanation of how to do this by searching this forum.) If done correctly, the valve train noise will disappear.

If setting the correct lash doesn't solve the problem, contact Comp Cams to see if the valve springs recommended for your cam are known for collapsing lifters during extended storage.

As a shot in the dark, when you remove your oil filter, do you have a significant amount of oil drain out after the oil filter removed, or does the filter come off by itself with little or no extra oil? (Trying to determine if your oil is draining back past the oil filter into the sump after shut off instead of being retained in the upper engine oil passageways like it should.)

Hope this helps resolve your problem. Good Luck!

 

If your going the route of setting the lash with the engine running be sure to buy the 10$ set of clips as not to make a mess. I'd think that you've just got miss adjusted rockers.

 

What does your oil pressure gauge read. I don't like the fact that there is more noise from the front of the engine because the front bearings get oil last

 

What are u using for "zero lash"??

Did u verify clearance rocker arm to retainer? Check clearance from rocker are slot on stud?

cardo0

 

You should set the rockers 3/4 turn. I've noticed noise with them at 1/2 turn.

And like was mentioned: Your oil is too thick. Try a 10W-30, or even a 5W-30.

I also have a retro-roller with Comp hydraulic roller lifters. Oil is 10W-30. There is never any noise, even when I start it in the winter with temps around freezing.

 

I know what you're getting at but pressure and flow are separate issues. So having one doesn't guarantee the other.

 

So if he has 10psi at idle that wouldn't matter ? Or maybe that's not enough to feed the front bearings ?

 

Here's another link to the same article on a different site: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

DC

 

I was not implying that low oil pressure was the cause in this case, it would just be the first thing I looked at

 

Good questions. I've replaced the filter and oil with 5W-30. Started it several times. Other than the initial time after I drained it, no noise. I am also sorting out a fuel line leak so I've got the line disconn'd until I get a new inlet fitting to the carb; I've boogered up where the line mates to the inlet and I am not getting a good seat on the fuel line.

PSI is about 70 at first start-up. Cruising, it is at 60psi and at stop lights, it never drops below 40psi. I have a Mellings high volume pump with about 35K miles. When I replaced the cam, I also snapped the plastic sleeve that keeps the oil pump shaft and extension to the distro together (I dropped the oil pump to replace the pick-up).... HEck, I wonder if I am lacking clearance on the oil pump pickup?.? Stock depth oil pan and the pickup was 'level' when I put the new pan on. Am using the appropriate pick-up for the pan depth and no fitment issues. I pressed in a new pick-up so it was NOT loose.

Once I put the new carb inlet on, I'll start and see if the noise from the front is sitll there. If so, I am going to consider pan/pick-up clearance. However, like I said, I never LOSE pressure when driving... wouldn't I lose pressure if the pickup were to close to pan?

 

I agree. I figured he had already checked that since most of us would if we heard an oil starving like sound coming from the engine.
What I was getting at was that just because he had good pressure at start didn't mean that is was flowing well to the necessary parts of the engine due to the excessive viscosity initially.

Still getting this with the 5W oil?
At that pressure I would expect some bypassing may be taking place and the oil may not be getting filtered properly.
If your using a fine filtration filter and 5W oil and still getting 70 psi at idle then I would try a courser filter. In the Wix line of filter sold by carquest the supreme is a finer filtration than the standard.
For instance If I buy the normal passenger car line of wix filter for the SB 350 I get a micron filtration of 21 microns that flows at 9-11 GPM.
http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/App...aspx?Section=1

However if I look up a racing applications (51060R with the anti drain back valve) I can get a micron rating of 61 microns and it flows at 28 GPM.
http://www.wixfilters.com/Speciality/Racing.aspx#oil
With that high flow oil pump you may also want a high flow oil filter.
Notice there are no bypass valves on this line of filters so it's your pump that will be doing the bypassing if psi is too high. Which one do you have, and do you know the GPM rating of that pump?

Or you could try a 0W oil. I personally have not tried it on my corvette but have had it for years in my daily drivers.

 

Noise first time after a oil change is normal.
At 70psi cold, you probably are going over the PUMP RELIEF. Nothing to do with the filter bypass, it could or could not, no way of knowing unless you put a gauge before the filter too.
Your hot running pressures are normal for a HV Melling pump.
If your pressure remains steady, you have no pickup problems.


The filter bypass on a Chevy is on the block adapter plate not in the filter.
If the pressure maxes out at 70psi (Melling HV pumps come with a 70psi relief spring), then the pump is relieving the oil back into the pan, the oil may or may not be bypassing the filter. That setting is around 9-12 psi differential.
If you are worried about bypassing at the filter cold or on startup then use a Baldwin B279 filter that has an internal bypass of 20psi and 12 micron.
The added plus is that you get a new bypass with every filter whereas the old chevy bypass spring could be severely weak and allowing much more oil to bypass the filter.
Baldwin are at least as good as Wix.

And while your on filtration here is a short link on an SAE paper result.
http://www.zhongnengcq.cn/english/ne...classname=NEWS

 

My DART heads have the raised valve cover rails and they prevent all of the overflow problems of the oil splashing around from the pushrods/rockers.

 

Yes, I am pulling 70psi at start-up with the 5w-30 but that is the first time starting the engine after a fresh oil change. Perhaps it will drop a little at cold start-up once/if the oil thins some. Before the conversion, I regularly ran 20W-50 with the flat-tappet cam and had similar pressures at cold start-up long after an oil change.

That is good to know about the pump pickup clearance.

I run a FRAM PH30 Extra Guard filter with every oil change. I've ordered my carb inlet parts from Dr Rebuild and will give the engine a start later this week when they arrive.

I really appreciate all the feedback.

Will post results after I start engine following carb fuel inlet replacement.

 

"I agree. I figured he had already checked that since most of us would if we heard an oil starving like sound coming from the engine.
What I was getting at was that just because he had good pressure at start didn't mean that is was flowing well to the necessary parts of the engine due to the excessive viscosity initially."

I agree just that sometimes the simple things are overlooked, I almost blew up my 427ci with a huge backfire when I first installed because I didn't have the pcv connected to the base of the carb. Simple but it took me a few hours to figure it out. I was more or less just checking, I know Ted and he is very careful I hope this gets resolved with no damage to the engine

 

Thanks. I am hopeful the thinner oil will help with initial start-up lubrication. Will also be sure to double-check the rocker adjustment once I've restarted later this week also. it is probably a good thing that this engine has to crank a bit to prime the fuel pump after sitting a few days... if it didn't have that, the start-up would be even more oil-starved than now.