So trot out your proof on Gen 1 SBC or BBC.

 

[QUOTE=69427;1584832821]Why are you specifically addressing synthetic oil, when short drives are a problem for any engine, regardless of the type of oil


The pro's and con's can be argued all day. Me personally in my older cars I take to car shows I run a good conventional oil with a ZDDP additive.I WILL NOT run a synthetic oil in them. In my newer cars synthetic only.....but that's just me.

 

Didn't you know that you are that only one required to show proof.

 

 

OK I'm done with this topic. It seems to me that no one has said anything negative about synthetic oil except for maybe the price. And to me, the added longevity is worth the price. I had a Saturn 4 cyl. with the supercharger that came from the factory with Mobil 1 oil. It was, among other things I'm sure, to help cool the engine. My original ? was "should I change to synthetic oil"? Most got caught up in debating the pros and cons of this oil, and not "flat out" answering the question. There are other reasons, like price, availability of some oils mentioned, environmental issues etc. that weren't discussed. Still a pretty good debate and I thank everyone for there input. I'm gonna switch to the first and still the best ( my opinion) synthetic oil out there- Amsol- as soon as I get my new baby home!!! Thanks again everyone- good discussion.

 

[QUOTE=CMEPASS;1584837684]I'm not asking for a day-long argument. I asked one simple question of you: Why do you specifically advocate not using synthetic oil in short distance driving, versus using dino oil?

Do you think condensation doesn't happen in dino oil?



I understand using dino oil in a car show engine. There's no stress on an engine in that activity, and dino oil is cheaper. But you will still get condensation with dino oil in short trips.

Now, can I have the courtesy of a reply to my question?

 

[QUOTE=69427;1584838647]Any engine with any oil needs to be warmed up because yes they get condensation in the oil. You obviously like synthetic oil over conventional oil which that's fine that's your choice. Some day that might be the only choice we have to use synthetic because there is no conventional oil anymore. But until then I will use what I have used for 30+ years. You can call that stubborn if you want but I say if it's not broke don't fix it.

 

You could have, as reasonable alternatives to asking the same old question yet once again, read any of the multiple threads that are always running on this same topic or the stickies at the top that attempt to permanently put the matter to rest.

Your choice.

You've also thrown out another contentious topic- longevity. I guess you're thinking of extended service intervals. Anybody want to comment on pros/cons on that topic?

BTW- the reason your Saturn required synthetic oil was identical to why one of the engines on a C4 required it, but neither was to cool the engine as you incorrectly believe.

 

[QUOTE=CMEPASS;1584839524]I'm not calling anyone stubborn (okay, maybe one of the other posters, but just him), I merely asked you a simple question.

 

I prefer 'Mr. Nasty' if it's all the same to you and the others.

 

From what I recall from a Auto tech class many years ago was that the big advantage to the synthetic oil was not that it ran cooler but that it could handle higher temps. It seems like I remember mineral oil brakes down some where 250 degrees and synthetic oil somewhere around 300 degrees, numbers may be off but I think that gets my point across. I also have a Corvette book that stated that GM went to Synthetic oil so that they could get rid of the external oil cooler, I don’t remember why they felt they needed to get rid of the cooler, but because the synthetic oil could handle higher temps they did not need the cooler. So the mobile 1 oil was running at higher temps but it was ok. Turbo and super chargers would benefit because of the synthetic oils ability to handle higher temps with out braking down.

 

That's pretty much correct. The switch by GM to synthetics on that particular engine model was to avoid the cost of an oil cooler, a scenario that just does not exist on our Gen 1 engines.

This decision lead in turn to the present day irrational logic that synthetics must therefore be better for everything.

 

Dr. Nasty,
In post #2, Mako63 listed his preferred oil selection for the OP. Just out of curiosity, could you list the oil that you would use in the OP's engine?

 

It's Mr. Nasty please.

To answer your question, and presuming the OP has a stock or near stock engine, please read the following paper:

http://stlouisncrs.org/news_files/St..._July_2011.pdf

starting on page 3. Choose your favourite brand accordingly. I like the Wallyworld stuff and stock up when it's on sale.

 

That article was written over 5 years ago. A lot has been learned since then. Duke did not address the reason why diesel oils have elevated ZDDP levels. It is because the higher detergent and dispersant levels in diesel oil used to combat the elevated ash and deposits in a low rpm diesel engine compete for the same space as the ZDDP so higher levels are required to provide the same protection as the 800 ppm in SM/SN rated oils. Duke does state in the article that 1100-1200 PPM of ZDDP minimum is needed for adequate protection but did not address the fact that since ZDDP and detergents dispersants are all polar molecules they try to occupy the same space. As has been proven time and time again those SM/SN protection levels are inadequate for flat tappet cam protection especially aftermarket cams with greater hydraulic intensity, stronger spring requirements, subjected to high rpm operation or solid flat tappet cams. Back when SF/SG/SH oils were the standard API rating cam lobe and lifter failure were much less common, even in racing applications. Now it happens all the time. This article is in the NCRS magazine. those are typically stock builds that see limited use, lower rpm and have low lift, low intensity factory cams. (Trailer Queens). Your posting in the Tech and Perfomace section.

BTW, I trashed 3 lobes in a really nice fully forged 302 with a Crain hydraulic flat tappet that never seen redline in under 5000 miles running Shell Rotella in 2006. Took out the entire bottom end.

 

The article may have been written 5 years ago but in that 5 years there's more evidence to demonstrate that such oils are suitable and no credible evidence that he was wrong.

You're free to contact him directly and 'Duke' it out of you wish.

Yes, this section is called TECH and performance. That's why were talking TECH here and not who's going to the drive in on Friday.

 

All the credible evidence I needed was looking at my new junk 302 and then the numerous others with the same problem running the same oil. Dozens on this forum alone in the past 5 years.

 

Synthetics will outperform conventional oil in regard to friction and thus temp, but not to a great degree. A bigger advantage in synthetics is they don't break down as quickly as conventional oil, thus you can go longer between oil changes. But that doesn't really apply to me, as I drive less than 3k per yr.
I run conventional oil for a different reason. My understanding is that an older engine, that has run on conventional all its life, can be prone to leaks if switched to synthetic. This is because of the smaller, more uniform molecules, and the tendency of syn to "clean" sludge deposits. (I am talking about very small sludge deposits, say at gasketed joints.) Once a leak develops, the only fix is to mechanically repair or replace gaskets, just switching back to conv oil won't help.
I am an engineer that works with the oil companies, but am not a "motor oil" expert, so thought I would ask others their opinion on this. Thanks.

 

I run the **** out of everything. From our boats, snowmobiles, cars and trucks. We use synthetic oil in everything. The cost is so minimal for the amount of superior lubrication. In fact, we don't even stock conventional oil. All of our service boats, 1965 to current run 15W40 synthetic marine oil. Same oil as I run in our shop trucks and all of the cars. This includes the Vette and Mustang Cobra. Al

 

I know my Richmond T-10 shifts better with synthetic oil in it.