synthetic oil?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 262
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From: Roanoke Va.
synthetic oil?
Most likely a dumb ? but should I change to synthetic oil in my (soon to be ) '69 427? I know it runs a little cooler on syn. but am just wondering about those 60's tolerances. Weren't too good back then!! If so, what grade would u use ? I realize outside temp. plays a role here, but generally speaking.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
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Use of some synthetics may reduce OIL temps by a few degrees under some conditions.
So what?
If the coolant temp is being regulated by the thermostat, this minor difference in OIL TEMP has no effect on coolant temp. Even if the thermostat is wide open and no longer has influence, the coolant temp might be reduced by a degree or two.
Whoopie.
Does that result in any tangible improvement in performance or durability?
No.
99% of the people on BITOG need to get a life or at least learn to see the forest and not just the trees.
So what?
If the coolant temp is being regulated by the thermostat, this minor difference in OIL TEMP has no effect on coolant temp. Even if the thermostat is wide open and no longer has influence, the coolant temp might be reduced by a degree or two.
Whoopie.
Does that result in any tangible improvement in performance or durability?
No.
99% of the people on BITOG need to get a life or at least learn to see the forest and not just the trees.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 20,868
Likes: 961
From: I tend to be leery of any guy who doesn't own a chainsaw or a handgun.
Use of some synthetics may reduce OIL temps by a few degrees under some conditions. We agree.
So what? Here's what. The oil temperature is a good indication of the rotating parts' surface temperatures and contact friction. Lower oil temp generally means that the metal being lubricated is at a lower temperature.
If the coolant temp is being regulated by the thermostat, this minor difference in OIL TEMP has no effect on coolant temp. The heat in the oil has to go somewhere, and that is to a good degree (no pun intended) into the block and head surfaces, which then conduct that heat into the coolant. But coolant temperature is not a complete description of what's happening. Remember that two engines/radiators can have the same temperature, but drastically different BTU creation/dissipation due to horsepower or internal friction. Even if the thermostat is wide open and no longer has influence, the coolant temp might be reduced by a degree or two. That agrees with the OP's comment, hence his statement wasn't false.
Whoopie.
Does that result in any tangible improvement in performance or durability? That wasn't the OP's question.
No. I disagree. Better flow, particularly during start-up and cold starts reduces wear on engine components. Better lubrication the rest of the time reduces wear and extends engine life.
99% of the people on BITOG need to get a life or at least learn to see the forest and not just the trees.
So what? Here's what. The oil temperature is a good indication of the rotating parts' surface temperatures and contact friction. Lower oil temp generally means that the metal being lubricated is at a lower temperature.
If the coolant temp is being regulated by the thermostat, this minor difference in OIL TEMP has no effect on coolant temp. The heat in the oil has to go somewhere, and that is to a good degree (no pun intended) into the block and head surfaces, which then conduct that heat into the coolant. But coolant temperature is not a complete description of what's happening. Remember that two engines/radiators can have the same temperature, but drastically different BTU creation/dissipation due to horsepower or internal friction. Even if the thermostat is wide open and no longer has influence, the coolant temp might be reduced by a degree or two. That agrees with the OP's comment, hence his statement wasn't false.
Whoopie.
Does that result in any tangible improvement in performance or durability? That wasn't the OP's question.
No. I disagree. Better flow, particularly during start-up and cold starts reduces wear on engine components. Better lubrication the rest of the time reduces wear and extends engine life.
99% of the people on BITOG need to get a life or at least learn to see the forest and not just the trees.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
"I disagree. Better flow, particularly during start-up and cold starts reduces wear on engine components. Better lubrication the rest of the time reduces wear and extends engine life. "
But the OP made no mention of these attributes, whether they be true or not. Is there any proof that C3 engines last longer when operated on synthetics?
No.
But the OP made no mention of these attributes, whether they be true or not. Is there any proof that C3 engines last longer when operated on synthetics?
No.
Last edited by Mike Ward; Sep 3, 2013 at 03:31 PM.
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Heel & Toe
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 23
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From: Bixby Oklahoma
Panhead59here is my 2 cents for what it is worth. If you go to a synthetic oil you have to let it warm up good and not make a habit of short drives. I say that because I have personally seen an engine that started out new on synthetic oil and changed every 5 thousand miles but he only drove about 6 miles to work and 6 miles home every day.After 3 1/2 years the engine was gone due to sludge caused by not having the oil get warmed up enough to and from work. He never drove the truck other than that. That tells me in a car I take to car shows or local events in the summer a few miles away will not benefit and might even hurt your beloved rides engine. I use a good conventional oil with a ZDDP additive in mine....just saying.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 20,868
Likes: 961
From: I tend to be leery of any guy who doesn't own a chainsaw or a handgun.
"I disagree. Better flow, particularly during start-up and cold starts reduces wear on engine components. Better lubrication the rest of the time reduces wear and extends engine life. "
But the OP made no mention of these attributes, No, you did, and I answered your question. whether they be true or not. Is there any proof than C3 engines last longer when operated on synthetics?
No.
But the OP made no mention of these attributes, No, you did, and I answered your question. whether they be true or not. Is there any proof than C3 engines last longer when operated on synthetics?
No.
Outta time, heading out to the garage to work on the '69. I'll check back later to see what further disagreements you have with synthetic use in our antiques.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 20,868
Likes: 961
From: I tend to be leery of any guy who doesn't own a chainsaw or a handgun.
Panhead59here is my 2 cents for what it is worth. If you go to a synthetic oil you have to let it warm up good and not make a habit of short drives. I say that because I have personally seen an engine that started out new on synthetic oil and changed every 5 thousand miles but he only drove about 6 miles to work and 6 miles home every day.After 3 1/2 years the engine was gone due to sludge caused by not having the oil get warmed up enough to and from work. He never drove the truck other than that. That tells me in a car I take to car shows or local events in the summer a few miles away will not benefit and might even hurt your beloved rides engine. I use a good conventional oil with a ZDDP additive in mine....just saying.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Having said that, people are free to spend as much money as they like on oil believing that it will make a difference.
Last edited by Mike Ward; Sep 3, 2013 at 04:24 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 262
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From: Roanoke Va.
Wooooaa. I figured I would start something. Zinc seems to be the major component missing (largely) from todays modern oil. Add the zinc and keep it clean seem to be the answer. Duh. Everyone agree on that? (synthetics must have zinc already)
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 219
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From: Irma Northern WI
Read the sticky by "540 Rat" at the top of the page. BTW less friction = less heat. However, friction at the bearings contributes less heat than combustion. Will the engine run cooler, likely not. Will the oil remain cooler with synthetic, if it is good quality oil, likely a little.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,652
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From: Bridgewater nj
Wetter water or any coolant additive will work better at keeping temps down 
Synthetic will work a little but almost not noticeable. My Harley dropper less than 5* ,I would say closer to 3*.
The wetter water was worth 10* cooler
Synthetic will work a little but almost not noticeable. My Harley dropper less than 5* ,I would say closer to 3*.
The wetter water was worth 10* cooler
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 142
Likes: 6
From: Indianapolis, Indiana
Just because its synthetics doesn't mean there is suffecient zddp in it to protect these older flat tappet engines. 
Most off the shelf synthetics have no more zinc and phosphorus suffecient than conventional dino oils.
For your setup I would look into Brad Penn oil. Many racers and street car guys have had very good luck with this stuff.
http://www.penngrade1.com/
http://theoilwarehouse.com/page/1hu7y/Home.html
Most off the shelf synthetics have no more zinc and phosphorus suffecient than conventional dino oils.
For your setup I would look into Brad Penn oil. Many racers and street car guys have had very good luck with this stuff.
http://www.penngrade1.com/
http://theoilwarehouse.com/page/1hu7y/Home.html
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
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Tech Contributor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 20,868
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From: I tend to be leery of any guy who doesn't own a chainsaw or a handgun.
No disagreements other than disputing any blanket claims that they provide any tangible benefit. 'Leaps tall buildings' or similar as an advertising claim doesn't mean much to me. People have been using synthetics in these cars since the 70s. That's plenty of time to accumulate data.
Having said that, people are free to spend as much money as they like on oil believing that it will make a difference.
Having said that, people are free to spend as much money as they like on oil believing that it will make a difference.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
The specific reasons why GM very reluctantly switched to use of synthetic (specifically Mobil1) on one C4 engine option and did not exercise a superior engineering solution is quite enlightening.
Surely BITOG must have covered this a thousand times, no?
PS- let's not hijack the OPs post any further.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
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From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Can you tell me why most, if not every manufacturer of high performance vehicles puts synthetic oil in their engines? (Or in your opinion why they're apparently wasting their money doing that?) Even Chevrolet, traditionally the epitome of tightwad manufacturing, has put synthetic oil in the Corvette for over two decades. Chevrolet rarely, if ever, spends extra money on something unless there's a compelling reason why. What do you think their reason is?
