Steeroids Opinions Please
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 735
Likes: 0
From: Portland, OR.
Steeroids Opinions Please
I am writing the check today and placing my order.
I have read the Vette article, the posts made here, and all of the info that is availalbe on their website.
$1200. 00 seems very reasonable for an advanced steering system such as this but $1200 is a fairly big hit to me right now, considering that I am back in school, so I am looking for some opinions from the people who have this system installed and have driven their Vettes for any amount of time with it.
Please let me know how you feel about:
1) The quality of the kit and its components
2) The installation process (Any tricks? Or special tidbits? Any problems?)
3) The way your Vette steers now
I truly appreciate anything that you can share.
Thank you,
STW!
Linwood
I have read the Vette article, the posts made here, and all of the info that is availalbe on their website.
$1200. 00 seems very reasonable for an advanced steering system such as this but $1200 is a fairly big hit to me right now, considering that I am back in school, so I am looking for some opinions from the people who have this system installed and have driven their Vettes for any amount of time with it.
Please let me know how you feel about:
1) The quality of the kit and its components
2) The installation process (Any tricks? Or special tidbits? Any problems?)
3) The way your Vette steers now
I truly appreciate anything that you can share.
Thank you,
STW!
Linwood
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 735
Likes: 0
From: Portland, OR.
Re: Steeroids Opinions Please (67HEAVEN)
I understand.
This is the other 73454, I have been coming here since the forum started.
I believe the other person was Canadian and used a hyphen in his name.
Sorry for the scare.
STW!
Linwood
This is the other 73454, I have been coming here since the forum started.
I believe the other person was Canadian and used a hyphen in his name.
Sorry for the scare.
STW!
Linwood
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,201
Likes: 0
From: Clifton Park NY
Re: Steeroids Opinions Please (73454)
Linwood,
You might want to check a couple of long threads about rack & pinion conversions, posted not too long ago:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=298490
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=320413
-Pedro
You might want to check a couple of long threads about rack & pinion conversions, posted not too long ago:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=298490
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=320413
-Pedro
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
Re: Steeroids Opinions Please (73454)
73454, as you may know, I did my own, been on the road about 5 months now...
same rack as steeroids, the operation is the same, obviously...just a slight differance in mounting and tie in to the tie rods/knuckles....
my front suspension and steering was/is new enough and in good tight order, even the original steering....
I been talking with Hib Halverson who shows uphere from time to time, for some years now, mostly off but on too occationally....
and one of the topics we hashed over some years ago was the 'on center' feel of the sharks.....
frankly being up north where the subsoil if more stable, and the roads less 'tracked'....i'ts not that much of a problem....
but here in Florida, I did start to notice a problem....the wide tires on front of my car tended to grab the ruts and steer the car, driving a freeway at 80 mph was a full time job....got tiring....thought of my '87 that I sold some 6 years ago...and how it tracked better, same tires essentially....
so I looked into doing my own conversion before steeroids came to market....
wound up with the same rack they did....same one that Idar Anderson in Finland?? used.....the '92 Grand am CTO rack.....
Ithink it's an easy install from scratch, but that depends on your capabilitites/limitations.....and of course TIME,....
I think it's about the single hugest improvement that chassis ever saw....
in the handling department the order of magnatude of change is about what's expected.....#1 tires, hands down, #2 rack/pinion #3 plastic spring in rear #4 urethane bushings......
GENE
same rack as steeroids, the operation is the same, obviously...just a slight differance in mounting and tie in to the tie rods/knuckles....
my front suspension and steering was/is new enough and in good tight order, even the original steering....
I been talking with Hib Halverson who shows uphere from time to time, for some years now, mostly off but on too occationally....
and one of the topics we hashed over some years ago was the 'on center' feel of the sharks.....
frankly being up north where the subsoil if more stable, and the roads less 'tracked'....i'ts not that much of a problem....
but here in Florida, I did start to notice a problem....the wide tires on front of my car tended to grab the ruts and steer the car, driving a freeway at 80 mph was a full time job....got tiring....thought of my '87 that I sold some 6 years ago...and how it tracked better, same tires essentially....
so I looked into doing my own conversion before steeroids came to market....
wound up with the same rack they did....same one that Idar Anderson in Finland?? used.....the '92 Grand am CTO rack.....
Ithink it's an easy install from scratch, but that depends on your capabilitites/limitations.....and of course TIME,....
I think it's about the single hugest improvement that chassis ever saw....
in the handling department the order of magnatude of change is about what's expected.....#1 tires, hands down, #2 rack/pinion #3 plastic spring in rear #4 urethane bushings......
GENE
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 735
Likes: 0
From: Portland, OR.
Re: Steeroids Opinions Please (mrvette)
Pedro'74 - Thanks, I found those after posting mine - sorry for making a short story longer :blueangel:
Gene - I am a hands-on type, but the time problem along with the tooling required make the kit more appealing than building my own. I could tell that the rack was an OEM piece and the bracketry looks fairly basic, I even had a friend who is a machinist look it over and he said that considering time/labor/tools that I could not replicate it for the same money, so I have decided - based on all this info - to buy the kit.
Thank you all
STW!
Linwood
Gene - I am a hands-on type, but the time problem along with the tooling required make the kit more appealing than building my own. I could tell that the rack was an OEM piece and the bracketry looks fairly basic, I even had a friend who is a machinist look it over and he said that considering time/labor/tools that I could not replicate it for the same money, so I have decided - based on all this info - to buy the kit.
Thank you all
STW!
Linwood
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
Re: Steeroids Opinions Please (73454)
73454, Yes, and I certainly can't fault you for taking the 'easy' way out on this one, but my car was down for extensive nitemare type wiring overhaul and many other issues last fall/winter, and then I decided to try doing something about steering....went with a false start on another rack, but soon switched when someone mentioned that Idar's rack from a 900 Saab, was in fact the same rack as a Grand am.....so 35 bux later I had one in hand, and started figgering out from there, engine was out of car, wish I had pulled the tranny too back then, as it crapped the big one after being on the road again for only a month or so.....figgers....nothing like doing everything twice....just lovely....simply wonderful, just for the fun and edification of being under the car twice....;-((( Reasons for all this taking so long was I"m arthritic as hell, and it's hard to get a decent day's work done on the car, takes me days to do a lousey 3-4 hours worth of work, damn glasses and light reflections slow me down too, as it does most old farts my age....funny, as a kid I remember being able to see in the dark, did most of my best work in the dark too....;-)))
thing is, I hate working on the interiors of cars, dash wiring is the worst, just plainly uncomfortable to get at....even when the entire car is stripped like nite club entertainment.....so close but so far...just can't quite reach it to get AT it....
GENE :D :D :D :jester
thing is, I hate working on the interiors of cars, dash wiring is the worst, just plainly uncomfortable to get at....even when the entire car is stripped like nite club entertainment.....so close but so far...just can't quite reach it to get AT it....
GENE :D :D :D :jester
Intermediate
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 33
Likes: 1
From: Chicago, ILL
Re: Steeroids Opinions Please (mrvette)
Gene I checked out your web page LOVELY CAR and looks like you have saw blabes on it, thats what I was concidering for my 71 17x9.5 all around or can you fit the 17x10s on the rear? :chevy
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,322
Likes: 1
From: Living in the Hartland
Re: Steeroids Opinions Please (67HEAVEN)
This reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Ellane is dating a guy named Joel Rifkin (a mass murder, Hillside Stranger maybe) and they decide he should change his first name. Maybe 73454 needs to change his name. :lol: Nah, your good reputation will far outlive the negative memories of our old friend George.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 735
Likes: 0
From: Portland, OR.
Re: Steeroids Opinions Please (Fevre)
Gene - I am pushing nearly 40 so I am getting to an age where I can relate to you on some of those points. Thanks again.
Fevre - I only saw a few posts made by 73-454, was he really that bad?
I can't change my name every time some wacko uses a version similar to mine - at times we get quite a few :jester
STW!
Linwood
Fevre - I only saw a few posts made by 73-454, was he really that bad?
I can't change my name every time some wacko uses a version similar to mine - at times we get quite a few :jester
STW!
Linwood
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,322
Likes: 1
From: Living in the Hartland
Re: Steeroids Opinions Please (73454)
You seemed like an allright guy, just would post some the nastiest comments from time to time. Then when people started calling him on it he did it more and more until he got banned. He started topices like 'How many of you missed your child support payment to make your vette payment?' He posted that in the c-5 section, no kidding. Keep posting and all our bad memories of him will fade.....
Racer
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: carson Missouri
Re: Steeroids Opinions Please (73454)
73454, I absolutely love this steering system. I drive to Kansas City, MO. for work. Anyone that has driven down I-70 knows how crappy that highway is. As mentioned by another member on center on these car leaves a lot to be desired. I would sometimes drive the vette to work. It was a battle to keep her in one lane. I can honestly say that this upgrade has made a world of difference in the quality of my driving experience. Just point and go. The install was very easy. No special tools, well a tie rod seperator will help. Turn to turn is also improved. The thought that I have wasted money on this kit has never entered my mind. Well until now, I may sell her. Actually the steering needed work anyway. Go for it, you will not regret it.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,600
Likes: 0
From: Valencia (near LA) CA
Re: Steeroids Opinions Please (71stingraybigblock)
I just ordered Steeroids this morning! This quote from one of the above threads does a good job of explaining why the steering feels so bad:
-71 Stingray:
One question- What is a tie rod separator? Is it the tool that looks like a big fork?
Thanks,
~Jay
[Modified by Jay M, 3:29 PM 7/8/2002]
"Why Why install a rack/pinion the stock set-up works perfect. Keep your money in your wallet and enjoy the vette"
Well... I have two Vettes and have been working on these C3 systems for a long, long time. As a professional mechanic as well. I have rebuilt steering gear boxes, slave cylinders, and many, many control valves.
"Works perfect" is a subjective idea. After complete rebuilds and adjustment as perfect as possible, the technology of the C3's steering couldn't even match the performance of my Pinto rack & pinion. I also have two Mustangs... with rack & pinion. No contest. Mustangs win hands down.
The C3 (and C2) ballstud & socket with it's backing spring in the control valve relies on a small bit of movement (slop) to slide the hydraulic valve inside of the control valve which is what controls the path of the hydraulic pressure, which in turn governs the direction of the hydraulic assist (power steering). In order for the pitman arm & ball stud to activate the hydraulic valve inside the mechanism, there must be (by design) some movement of the ball stud relative to the valve housing which is attached to the steering linkage.. This translates to "slop".
Add in the slop inherent in the design of the gear box, and (in my opinion) we have a design that is less than optimal. Rack & pinion is SO much tighter and responsive than C3 steering. Remember... these cars are old technology.
The design of the C3 gear box allows for slop either side of center. This is why, even with a new (not just rebuilt) gear box you can still feel a bit of "uncertainty" while running through the cones in a C3.
The Vette mag crew aren't the only ones that were drooling over R & P.
I had to put on a bib.
If you bought all new OEM C3 parts, according to them, it adds up to about $950 (no labor included), when the totally bolt on R & P is about $1100, I would have a hard time installing OEM stuff if I were gutting my C3 steering.
My Mustangs steer so much better.
Well... I have two Vettes and have been working on these C3 systems for a long, long time. As a professional mechanic as well. I have rebuilt steering gear boxes, slave cylinders, and many, many control valves.
"Works perfect" is a subjective idea. After complete rebuilds and adjustment as perfect as possible, the technology of the C3's steering couldn't even match the performance of my Pinto rack & pinion. I also have two Mustangs... with rack & pinion. No contest. Mustangs win hands down.
The C3 (and C2) ballstud & socket with it's backing spring in the control valve relies on a small bit of movement (slop) to slide the hydraulic valve inside of the control valve which is what controls the path of the hydraulic pressure, which in turn governs the direction of the hydraulic assist (power steering). In order for the pitman arm & ball stud to activate the hydraulic valve inside the mechanism, there must be (by design) some movement of the ball stud relative to the valve housing which is attached to the steering linkage.. This translates to "slop".
Add in the slop inherent in the design of the gear box, and (in my opinion) we have a design that is less than optimal. Rack & pinion is SO much tighter and responsive than C3 steering. Remember... these cars are old technology.
The design of the C3 gear box allows for slop either side of center. This is why, even with a new (not just rebuilt) gear box you can still feel a bit of "uncertainty" while running through the cones in a C3.
The Vette mag crew aren't the only ones that were drooling over R & P.
I had to put on a bib.
If you bought all new OEM C3 parts, according to them, it adds up to about $950 (no labor included), when the totally bolt on R & P is about $1100, I would have a hard time installing OEM stuff if I were gutting my C3 steering.
My Mustangs steer so much better.
-71 Stingray:
No special tools, well a tie rod seperator will help
Thanks,
~Jay
[Modified by Jay M, 3:29 PM 7/8/2002]
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,001
Likes: 113
From: Saginaw Michigan
Re: Steeroids Opinions Please (Jay M)
I'm not throwing cold water on you boys. But do keep in mind that 99% of the world's rack and pinon steering gears with power steering have a rotary valve that depends on a torsion bar inside the valve to twist before hydraulic fluid pressure is applied to one side or the other of a piston. So you also have built-in "slop" with a rotary hydraulic valve just like you have with the old linear action slide valve in the Corvette. The Vette is linear, almost all other power gears (both recirculating ball and R&P) have rotary valves.
You do have less pivot points with a rack and pinion than you do with a recirculating ball/linkage system. But a recirculating ball mechanism is inherently a very efficient system.
Good luck with your R&Ps.
You do have less pivot points with a rack and pinion than you do with a recirculating ball/linkage system. But a recirculating ball mechanism is inherently a very efficient system.
Good luck with your R&Ps.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 735
Likes: 0
From: Portland, OR.
Re: Steeroids Opinions Please (Fevre)
Fevre - I don't blame the moderators for banning him if he did things like that... you have nothing to worry about with me, I will increase my participation on the forum and som of the old-timers probably remember me. Thanks again.
71stingraybigblock - Thanks for your input, its testamonials such as yours that make me feel confident about this type of purchase.
I have often wondered if the old steering maladies are increased by the weight of a big block. Mine steers fairly well, but it does remind me of an old truck at times though.
Jay M - How did they treat you? I called to see how far they are back-ordered and they said a week, did they tell you the same thing?
The check is in the mail - Thank you.
A tie-rod separator is a long rod (12 to 14 inches) with what looks like a small wedge shaped tuning fork on the end.
STW!
Linwood
71stingraybigblock - Thanks for your input, its testamonials such as yours that make me feel confident about this type of purchase.
I have often wondered if the old steering maladies are increased by the weight of a big block. Mine steers fairly well, but it does remind me of an old truck at times though.
Jay M - How did they treat you? I called to see how far they are back-ordered and they said a week, did they tell you the same thing?
The check is in the mail - Thank you.
A tie-rod separator is a long rod (12 to 14 inches) with what looks like a small wedge shaped tuning fork on the end.
STW!
Linwood
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 5,877
Likes: 1
From: Park Ridge IL
Re: Steeroids Opinions Please (Ben Taylor)
I've been thinking about getting the front monospring setup for my car, would I be able to install the rack and pinion with it there?
Racer
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: carson Missouri
Re: Steeroids Opinions Please (Monty)
I do not know if you have aftermarket headers or stock, but as I understand it there could be clearance problems w/ some headers. I am referring to the Steeroids.
[Modified by 71stingraybigblock, 6:47 PM 7/8/2002]
[Modified by 71stingraybigblock, 6:47 PM 7/8/2002]