I know our breaks are good to begin with, but I'm planning an upgrade regardless. I'm considering one of the C5 conversions or the Willwood D8-4 piston. They are going on my C3 LS Resto Mod

So, from the cool factor which one is better?

Which one is better performance?

 

Been waiting for this thread !! tnx

 

Your wheel size determines how good of brakes you can have.

http://www.vbandp.com/auto-parts.htm...category_id=26

 

Yea depending on wheel size I'd do the Wilwood BBK kit.

 

So..i've got the 18" wheels., front and back... this looks good..

What are peoples opinion of the Hydraboost from VBP?

 

If you are considering the Wilwood D8-4 calipers using stock 12 inch rotors, front and rear, I would save your money-the only advantage is the aluminum caliper versus the stock cast iron 4 piston calipers. The Wilwood D8-6 piston front caliper offers more clamping force but is very expensive and for street driving, again, in my opinion, not worth the money. As for the C5 calipers, absolutely going backwards, in terms of brake performance unless you are going to 13 inch rotors, but even then, you are considering a replacement 2 piston floating front caliper versus the C3's fixed 4 piston front caliper, and the C5's rear single piston floating caliper versus the C3's rear fixed 4 piston fixed caliper. Fixed calipers are generally considered a "racing" style caliper providing more consistent even brake pad pressure onto the rotor. Hydro boost will provide zero improvement on the stock brake system performance since it only effects actual brake feel, no increase in performance using the same brake components.

The only way to improve on the stock C3 brake system of 4 piston fixed calipers, front and rear, with 12 inch vented discs, front and rear, is to use a fixed 4 piston (or 6 piston front caliper) such as Baer/wilwood AND to increase the rotor diameter to 13/14 inch diameter-BIG BUCKS-approx $3,000. Unless you are racing, not sure of the benefit on the street.

A more prudent approach, IMCO, would be to make sure the stock system is operating correctly, paint the calipers whatever color you want (if cool is in the mix) along with drilled/slotted rotors (personally would not but just me and the issue of rotor runout in the rear), high performance brake pads, and Braided stainless steel flex lines, front and rear. Spend some money on the best ultra high performance tires you can afford and the car will stop on a dime!

With that said, on my 78 L-82, I use the stock calipers (painted silver), stock rotors, Braided Stainless steel flex lines, Performance Friction Carbon Metallic pads, and 255/45/17 ZR summer only tires-the car just stops like now when needed!

I recently upgraded two of my other car's brakes and went through the trouble since these were what I consider "upgrades". 94 Mustang GT convertible from stock 11 inch rotors/single piston floating calipers to Mustang Cobra brakes-13 inch Slotted rotors /dual piston Calipers with a cobra master cylinder, Performance Friction pads, SS lines-$500. #2 2008 Chrysler 300 3.5l V6 limited-Stock 12 inch rotor/single piston floating caliper- to Chrysler Hemi Brakes-13.6 inch Drilled/slotted rotors/MUCH bigger dual Piston floating Calipers with a brake pad 2X the size of the Limited's pads, SS brake lines and Performance Friction Pads-$400.
These two examples are to me "brake upgrades"!

Next up-daughters 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix. Stock front brakes are 11 inch rotors with a single piston floating calipers-currently using drilled/slotted rotors with PF pads. Going to F body 98-02 Camaro dual piston floating calipers, 01 impala 12 inch rotors, SS brake lines, and PF pads-Cost $350.

Hope that helps!

 

Willwood D8-4.

As I understand it, they perform better than stock C5 units and look better, IMO.

Also, installation is easier.


BILL

 

How can increased clamping force provide "zero improvement" on the stock system? If you have sticky tires and a motor that makes borderline vacuum to run a factory booster (say a 496 with a decent cam - none of that 1970s factory crap) you are telling me you won't see any improvement with hydroboost? Hell, even with normal street tires I can stop my car much better with hydroboost than with a power booster. It doesn't just feel better, it is better because you can apply less pedal pressure while applying more clamping force on the pads. Now if you just stomp your big clumsy foot on the pedal and lock up the brakes you are not going to see a difference, sure.


How about heat dissipation if you actually drive your car hard enough to need that sort of thing? No? No improvement with aluminum over cast iron?

Sorry, I stopped reading beyond that.

But what do I know.

 

Let me see if some clarification will make it a little clearer. I never said hydroboost will not benefit a car that does not have adequate vacuum to operate the power brake booster, for one. What the hydroboost does do is replace the lost power assist for such a car. It does NOT increase clamping force on a proper operating brake system. The brake performance of two C3 systems, one power and one manual brakes, is EXACTLY the same. The only difference is the amount of pedal pressure applied with the power brake system in order to achieve a certain brake performance. IT IS PEDAL FEEL, NOT the absolute/overall performance of the brake systems. There is no getting around the facts of physics!

Is it me or did I not say the only real advantage is the aluminum versus the cast iron caliper in my comments above? In my opinion, not worth the advantage of heat dissipation and less unsprung weight for a street car.

I took the time to write my original comments, to dispel these kinds of myths about hydroboost "increasing clamping force".

But what do I know!

 

Just because a caliper has more piston area that doesn't mean it makes more clamping force. That force is only relative to the line pressure and foot force being used.

Some folks, for mis understood reasons, feel that if you have more piston area that you have more brake power. No, you just have the same forces available to you with less effort on the leg. In that same light you don't make more force by way of a larger rotor either. In that case you simply do it more effectively with greater mass for the thermal demand.

Maximum brake force remains the point of lock up of the tire to the road. No more, no less. With less piston are or smaller rotors you (meaning YOU) work harder applying leg pressure (line psi) to generate that max. With more pistons or larger discs the components aide that and the result is your leg doesn't work as hard.

 

I'm very pleased with my setup, and it wasn't $3,000.

Front: 13" 2-piece rotors with Wilwood Superlite calipers (4-piston fixed).
Rear: Stock rotors with Wilwood Dynalite calipers (also 4-piston fixed)

Had to switch to a 1" bore master cylinder as the Wilwood calipers have slightly smaller piston diameter. I used a stock MC for manual brakes (I have power brakes, the manual MC bolts right up).

I bought stuff in several iterations, so not sure about total cost. Probably a bit over $1K.

 

You sir are correct. I incorrectly assumed that the increased line pressure from the pump to the hydroboost equated to increased pressure from the hydroboost to the caliper. I still do not agree that improved brake feel is not an improvement as engine load and vacuum are eliminated from the equation in regards to braking.

Todd - never mentioned piston area - was just referring to the hydroboost which as I just clarified, I was misunderstanding/remembering regarding clamping force applied at the caliper.

 

Zwede, looks like a nice upgrade with the 2 piece 13 inch front rotors, up from the 11.75 inch stock rotors. I get that! As I originally mentioned above, I have a done 2 upgrades on my other cars going from single piston floating calipers to dual piston floating calipers and from an 11 inch rotor to 13 inch on the Mustang (Cobra brakes) and from a 12 inch rotor to a 13.6 inch rotor (Hemi brakes)-BIG difference in overall brake performance.

BUT for a big performance gain on the C3, one would have to opt for a system like the Baer 6 piston fixed front calipers with 14 inch rotors-$3,200-just looked it up.

 

That's a simpl and functional set up zwede. From a retail standpoint...I'd day about $1100 for the entire package at the most knowing a bit more than the average person about such things. The only thing I might have changed was to go with an 8 on 7.625 hat or larger, to reduce the total rotor weight and deflection. Nonetheless it offers ample rotor mass, thick pads, easy pad changes and cost effectiveness.

FWIW, if someone does this and keeps the stock rear caliper you could run this same set up without the mc change. Use a 120-11329/330 caliper with only slightly less piston area as stock. Offset by the larger rotor diameter for bias.

 

Hi CWerner,

I have the red Wilwood D8-4 calipers and EBC sport rotors front and back. My stock calipers started to leak and rather than rebuilding them or purchasing upgraded stock rotors I went with the D8-4.

I can't say if they perform better than the C5 calipers or not, however I think they look good and perform as good or better than stock. I know I won't have to worry about leaking seals anymore and aluminum doesn't rust like cast iron.

The lighter weight can't hurt and better heat dissipation is also a bonus. I also replaced my master cylinder with a Wilwood and all my rubber brake hoses with steel braided hoses.

I haven't installed a Hydroboost as I think the braking force is fine as I can lock up the brakes at will and it doesn't require anymore leg force than normal.

My car is not for racing but with the power modifications that I have added I felt that it only made sense to upgrade the brakes to be sure of reliability.

I wanted to be sure I could stop as best as possible without going with racing brakes which would not be the best for the street.

Ultimately each to their own on this issue, brakes are one of the highest safety priorities for me on any car! Not a place to try and save a few dollars.

JMHO

 

Thanks to all for the responses. I think I'm going to go with Willwood. Now the question is do I do the big brakes or not. This is purely a money question. There's clearly a bigger cool factor with the big brakes, but that will require bigger wheels. All of the sudden my cost goes up more and more. I've got 17 x 8 TTII's and I don't think the big break package works.

 

That's probably the most comprehensive and honest report on the Wilwood replacements I've read. Nice to see a happy owner who purchased them for what they are; and affordable alternative to the stock iron parts. Well spoken.

 

My 13" setup above fits with 17x8 rims (that's what I have). I also have a spare that's 16" and it clears also (just barely!).

 

Zwede, What upper control arm is that on your car?

 

They're from SpeedDirect.