Lars is indeed correct. Your married to an '81 Q-Jet (sort of). I can remember this system very well. Here's a little trivia from 1981. It was General Motors very first attempt into the world of computerized engine controls...integrating a few variable solenoids and throttle position sensors incorporated into the casting of a Rochester 4 barrel carburetor. After all, General Motors HAD to do something...Ford had already came out with their first attempt at computers called the EEC system, and did it a year ahead of GM, introducing it in 1980, and it flopped at about the same rate as GM's first attempt at CCC did. Nonetheless, you have to keep up with the competition, at all cost or lose ranking, not an option the heads at GM wanted to contemplate. This was GM's attempt to level the playing field, and for the most part, it worked. When it didn't work, we usually got to see them. I worked at Jack Marshall Chevrolet, fresh out of high school in 1981, and though this was many, many moons ago, I can remember the most common issues that came into the dealership involving this entry level system of computerized engine controls. The M/C (mixture control solenoid) gave us fits, and a LOT of them. Fuel float level was now even more important than ever, and varied between models substantially . I also became pretty proficient at removing the hardened steel plugs in the carburetor, put there to prevent things like idle air bleed adjustments and so forth that GM "fixed" at the factory to prevent any further adjustment. At this stage, I'd have to call a running 1981 a true survivor. If there was a first, it was the 1981, because it WAS 1981 that began a total re-thinking on how fuel is introduced into an internal combustion engine, leading us to the cutting edge technology we have today integrated into every automobile manufactured today. Which has finally led me to an LS swap in my C3!

 

Thanks for the insight I'm really hoping they get it right this time. I went ahead and also ordered a fuel pressure regulator and gauge so I can be sure that this variable is ruled out. I do have a new fuel pump on the car but it's a factory replacement manual pump bolted to the block. Once I get the carb back ill put the regulator on and set to a max of 7 psi...place the other end into a gas can and see what I get on cranking psi...then I'll bolt on the carb and start her up with the psi set to 7 if needed....if the carb leaks this time I'll know it's NOT my cars fault

 

Got an update sorta....spoke with owner of carb shop since it's been 7 calendar days. They said they couldn't find anything wrong with mine after torn all the way down so they decided to get another e4me (same casting number) and remanufacture it. So now once it's ready I'll have my original and this newly remanfactured original.

We shall see, prob their way of trying to point a finger in my direction of it being my vettes fault vs theirs.....I'll document the fuel psi once I bolt up the carb

Just waiting....

 

Send the original one to SMI (Sean Murphy Induction) for a rebuild. He'll square it away for sure.

 

Very interesting thread.

 

The CCC on the 81 is a cobbled together abomination best left to the junk heaps of time.

I have an 81 and got rid of all of it. It is probably easier than going through the headaches you are.

The CCC is in the battery compartment. Comes right out. And the wiring harness is a stand alone harness that you can take the entire harness out without affecting anything else.

You can buy a nice Holley for around 250, and a real nice Summit HEI distributor for 84.00. Put in a manual switch for the kick down.

While your at it, you can pull the lousy air pump and toss it. Pinch off the header air lines until you can afford some nice block huggers.

That stock fuel pump is a POS. It has a return line from the fuel tank that supposedly prevents vapor lock. It is totally useless. Simply get a nice normal manual pump and plug the vapor lock line.

If you spend some money on headers, a Holley, a distributor and full size intake manifold, you will increase performance and horsepower immediately.

You wont' be passed by every 260 hp Nissan and Kia out there.

My 81

 

Commander's advice above is OK. The part about putting on a nice set of headers is very spot on.

Get your carb running right, add a set of headers and you'll have as much HP as the setup described above, more torque, better fuel economy and throttle response.

 

That's the goal here, once carb is back I'll be adding the headers. Already removed the smog pump so that's gone.

I spoke with the shop today, they said waiting on last part to arrive tomorrow....

 

Here's another wrinkle for you...when Chevrolet released the ZZ4 engine (345 HP), they developed an emission's legal package for third gen F cars (82-87 CCC Carb'd cars only). It was so Camaro and Firebird guys could buy an engine in the crate from GM (along with a SLEW of other parts) and repower their anemic 305 powered cars. One of the parts that HAD to be replaced was the block mounted fuel pump...it couldn't keep up the fuel demand for 345 HP, so they replaced it with a TBI pump from a Camaro/Firebird (mounted in tank) and a Holley Fuel pressure regulator (to reduce the pressure (around 14psi I think) going to the carb). If you have big top end plans, I'd consider an 82 CFI pump and lines (and maybe the tank too) and the Holley regulator to make sure you don't lean out the engine...and you're going to go through a lot of these carb issues again when it comes time to start swapping secondary rods and hangers, and modifying primary metering to take advantage of your new found air flow. Make sure your cam specs are ECM compatible...don't get crazy or the CCC will make the car an un-driveable mess. I would say keep ADV duration around 260 degrees intake, 270 degrees exhaust on a 112 lobe center and use 1.6 rocker arms to bump the lift up where it needs to be. A hydraulic roller cam will give you more lift and more power than a flat tappet, but OEM hydraulic roller lifter set ups are more durable than aftermarket stuff for a daily driven street only car (which means moving to a later 1 piece rear main seal block with roller cam provisions cast in the block).

 

And one more thing, I think you have the wrong MSD HEI ignition module based on the pic you posted earlier, that one looks to have 4 pins (2 on each side), the CCC module has 5 pins on one side (check against your stock one when you pull the distributor apart). I would also validate the coil to make sure you have the right one (again, I THINK CCC is different).

 

C6 good to hear from you again yes the MSD parts are exact fits for my CCC controlled Dizzy (already installed). Timing was set a month ago at 12 then CCC plugged back up ( I won't know how it likes the MSD guts till I get the carb back to start her up).

As far as the engine mods, once I get a good amount of miles under her with this setup, then I will pull the trigger and as far as CAM and heads, you are spot on...AFR has heads in that range and Howard CAMS has a great hydro roller conversion kit for flat tap original 350 engines.

 

You should check in at Cliff Ruggles' forum too, he's a good source for all QJet info. Cliff's high performance... do a search. A lot of guys on thirdgen dot org as well, since early 3G Camaro guys have to deal with a lot of E4Ms.

 

Hey guys ...updating the thread as promised

I got the carb back today, my visual inspection went well they did get another proper E4ME with my casting code. The date code was close, within 30 days of mine. Only difference I found was on the trans kickdown, no big deal there. I bolted it up but have not fired her up yet. I have to finish up a small project (turn signal switch replacement) ...will do that tomorrow after work. If all goes according to plan I will fire it up wed night and hope the darn leak is gone .....

 

Ok guys...As promised I fired up the newly rebuilt E4ME the shop gave me....

• It did fire right up, I watched the electric choke operate as expected
• It idled high, then sputtered a bit and stalled out
• I fired it up again - same sequence of events

At this point it was 10 PM so I said, walk away and deal with it tomorrow (tonight). On my way out the door this morning to work, I popped the hood and sure enough – the top gasket is pretty wet in the front !

*** so *** now that this is a physically different E4ME, rebuilt back to factory spec…this is telling me maybe it is fuel pressure???
I did buy a Holley fuel pressure regulator (4-9 psi) and got a Mr. Gasket Inline Fuel pressure gauge

What should my next steps be?
• Put on just the fuel pressure gauge only (will be run with rubber fuel hose between hard line from pump and Carb) and observe the fuel pressure unmolested first?
o BTW my fuel pump is brand new (OEM direct replacement – manual pump bolted to block)
• Put on the regulator and gauge (will be run with rubber fuel hose between hard line from pump and Carb) and adjust to 7 PSI regardless?

** Assuming I find a fuel pressure issue, I would need to find a more permanent solution as this gauge and regular will be a “band-aid” and I will prob not be able to get the air cleaner back on. Does Q-Jet or other vendor make a more proper fuel pressure regulator and adapter?

I’ll keep you guys posted – I will say I’m almost to the point now of ripping out the dizzy and throwing a normal one it, buying a new Holley (which has better provisions for fuel pressure gauge and regulator LOL). I don’t tend to give up easy on anything so I’m not throwing in the towel…but it’s getting close. The weather here in FL is getting better and I want to Drive my vette. I even bought C5 Sport seats in great shape off of e-bay and about to put those in it…I’m ready to have some fun with it and not worry about fuels leaks and fires….Ughhh

 

I would run the guage on the stock pump w/o regulator to get a baseline, that pump may be built to wrong specs, or labeled wrong, etc. Then you can add the regulator in line and see how it acts. As stated a dozen times in this thread, you either have too high pressure or needle/seat is not sealing for some reason. I have had many needles not seal well on other carbs on new out of the box rebuild kits. One thing you can do is sharpen a wood dowel to the contour of the needle, put some fine valve lapping compound on the tip, chuck it in a drill, and polish the seat. Of course you will need to disassemble the carb first and clean the snot out of it when done. You'd be surprised how much this helps with carbs that don't like to seal...and you'd be surpised at the low quality carb parts on the market these days...

 

well, i know there are people on here that will attack me for saying this but, id get a new distributor and a holley spread bore that bolts straight on the car and be done with it. those hybrid carburetors do NOTHING well. even Lars wont work on them. as Bill Engvall says here's your sign.

 

Brians1 - how about trying this: with the carb on the engine take the top of the carb off (air horn) and look at the fuel level in the float bowl. Is it overflowing? Is the float floating? Heck, pull the +12V connector off of the distributor, have another person crank the engine and watch the fuel coming into the fuel bowl. Does it ever stop flowing? Does the needle valve shut-off the fuel flow or does it just never stop?

You should be able to isolate the problem.

 

you better hold down on that float pivot or you'll have gas everywhere . and pray there is no ignition source. maybe do it outside. if you just take the top off you will see the float level.

 

Guys...a good update here...I decide to call National Carburetor, who happens to be local here in Jacksonville Fl. I summarized my situation with the tech,....he passed me over to the Owner, Eddie.
Eddie said "I’m sorry you have had so many problems. Come see me tomorrow on your lunch break and I will take the top off, replace the needle and seat, check the float, and put it on our Dyno where we CAN check the electronics - Free"

I’m already feeling better just on customer service - will keep you posted.

he did tell me that the shop that did my work, they order needle and seats from a company in Kansas that has a bad rep vs. national Carb. gets theirs from Cali....we shall see tomorrow - Eddie also said I am welcome to came back into the shop and watch him do everything if I have the time – again great customer service!

 

I certainly won't argue with you.

But I can feel FL's pain and sympathize.

Fact is, these 76 thru 81 vettes are just not the cars they could have been. There are a multitude of reasons.

Bottom line is that GM didn't bother to develop a new system, just bolt stuff on and see what stuck. Most of it junk, especially the early smog stuff.

There are guys on here that will tell you constant troubleshooting and fixing these systems is actually a challenge and "fun"

If you want to drive your 81 and enjoy some decent performance and reliability the Holley route is the way to go.

I would strongly recommend a Borgeson box as well.