Setting hydralic lifters - another tech tip.
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St. Jude Donor '06-'10, '13
Setting hydralic lifters - another tech tip.
I was doing some work on my 1978 Chevy truck recently (swapped heads, cam, lifters, all that work), and came across something that may help in the future.
Many people have a hard time setting the hydralic lifter preload and have been asking a lot of questions here lately. I had a vacuum gage connected to my carb, and noticed something while setting the lifters.
Most people were saying to set the lifters while running. Back the nut off until they rattled, then tighten until the noise stopped, and give it some more. Some said 1/4 turn, some said 1/2 turn. So, that's how I proceded.
I noticed when I would go over 1/4 turn my vacuum gage needle would start swinging wildly, between 5 and 15 inches vacuum. When I would back it off a little the needle would even out again. This would let me know that I had a valve hanging open too long, and therefore had tightened the lash down too much. The best addjustment for mine was about 1/8th turn past the end of rattle, at idle, while warm.
I hope this helps others in the future.
Many people have a hard time setting the hydralic lifter preload and have been asking a lot of questions here lately. I had a vacuum gage connected to my carb, and noticed something while setting the lifters.
Most people were saying to set the lifters while running. Back the nut off until they rattled, then tighten until the noise stopped, and give it some more. Some said 1/4 turn, some said 1/2 turn. So, that's how I proceded.
I noticed when I would go over 1/4 turn my vacuum gage needle would start swinging wildly, between 5 and 15 inches vacuum. When I would back it off a little the needle would even out again. This would let me know that I had a valve hanging open too long, and therefore had tightened the lash down too much. The best addjustment for mine was about 1/8th turn past the end of rattle, at idle, while warm.
I hope this helps others in the future.
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Re: Setting hydralic lifters - another tech tip. (BSeery)
That is very interesting I will have to try that. I think the optimal stting would be no turns after it just barely stops ticking, that would be 0 lash, I think you keep going ( 1/4 - 1 turn) so you don't have to adjust them so often as they wear.
1/8 woulb be great for high RPM's. :D
1/8 woulb be great for high RPM's. :D
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From: Exiled to Richmond, VA - Finally sold my house in Murfreesboro, TN ?? Corner of "Bumf*&k and 'You've got a purdy mouth'."
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Re: Setting hydralic lifters - another tech tip. (BSeery)
TTT -- up there for the night time folks.
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Re: Setting hydralic lifters - another tech tip. (BSeery)
Bryan,
If there is a true correlation between those events then this is EXCELLENT information. It makes complete sense yet I've never heard of it before. You just might of discovered the holy valve adjustment grail.
You get the credit for this one :cheers:
I was by your way today on the way home from LV and after 2 days of arcade games, simulators and roller coasters with my 9 and 14 year yo boys, I am going to spend the next two days horizontal!
Craig
If there is a true correlation between those events then this is EXCELLENT information. It makes complete sense yet I've never heard of it before. You just might of discovered the holy valve adjustment grail.
You get the credit for this one :cheers:
I was by your way today on the way home from LV and after 2 days of arcade games, simulators and roller coasters with my 9 and 14 year yo boys, I am going to spend the next two days horizontal!
Craig
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From: Douglasville GA
Re: Setting hydralic lifters - another tech tip. (MotorHead)
That is very interesting I will have to try that. I think the optimal stting would be no turns after it just barely stops ticking, that would be 0 lash, I think you keep going ( 1/4 - 1 turn) so you don't have to adjust them so often as they wear.
1/8 woulb be great for high RPM's. :D
1/8 woulb be great for high RPM's. :D
You are correct that after loosening the adjuster nut and getting the tap, then tightening the nut you will be leaving a valve open - UNTIL the pressure bleeds and the plunger moves to the center against the oil pressure and spring pressure.
1/8 turn is fine, but you may get to adjust the hydraulic valves more often due to lifter tap as parts wear.
One last comment, the internal plunger has a small retaining clip, and SHOULD NOT be allowed to run against the clip for long, as the clip is not that strong, so it you get tapping lifters, fix it soon.
Tom Melton
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86 Z51 Coupe
Burning Brakes
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From: Ajax Ontario
Re: Setting hydralic lifters - another tech tip. (tommelton)
One last comment, the internal plunger has a small retaining clip, and SHOULD NOT be allowed to run against the clip for long, as the clip is not that strong, so it you get tapping lifters, fix it soon.
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Re: Setting hydralic lifters - another tech tip. (tommelton)
I agree with tommelton. If you adjusted the lifter 1/4 or 1/2 turn then left it there for a short time it would quiet out as the lifter plunger bled off pressure. 1/8 th is not enough. I always set 3/4 of a turn after taking up all the slack in the valve train and have never run into any problems. Running at 1/8th of a turn will cause the plunger to eventually put pressure on the retaining clip and it will fail.
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Re: Setting hydralic lifters - another tech tip. (norvalwilhelm)
I agree with tommelton. If you adjusted the lifter 1/4 or 1/2 turn then left it there for a short time it would quiet out as the lifter plunger bled off pressure. 1/8 th is not enough. I always set 3/4 of a turn after taking up all the slack in the valve train and have never run into any problems. Running at 1/8th of a turn will cause the plunger to eventually put pressure on the retaining clip and it will fail.
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Drifting
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From: Honolulu Hawaii
Re: Setting hydralic lifters - another tech tip. (BSeery)
By any chance, did you install a performance cam/lifter package? If so, check this thread out: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=334924
Based on my experience w/ conventional lifters, when you crank down on the lifter slowly and wait, the vacuum readings and idle quality return to smooth operation relatively quickly (10 sec approx). But on anti pump-up lifters, they are super sensitive to any crank down and don't return to smooth operation quickly, if at all (never left them cranked down for very long in order to find out).
Many performance cam/lifter packages come with anti pump-up lifters!!! Know what kind of lifters you have before you adjust them!!!!
Based on my experience w/ conventional lifters, when you crank down on the lifter slowly and wait, the vacuum readings and idle quality return to smooth operation relatively quickly (10 sec approx). But on anti pump-up lifters, they are super sensitive to any crank down and don't return to smooth operation quickly, if at all (never left them cranked down for very long in order to find out).
Many performance cam/lifter packages come with anti pump-up lifters!!! Know what kind of lifters you have before you adjust them!!!!
Thread Starter
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From: Exiled to Richmond, VA - Finally sold my house in Murfreesboro, TN ?? Corner of "Bumf*&k and 'You've got a purdy mouth'."
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Re: Setting hydralic lifters - another tech tip. (nunus79)
It is an aftermarket cam and lifter package, but I am sure they are not the anit-pump up / variable duration lifters.
It just could be that I was not waiting long enough for the lifter to recover. I will check later today with the right side that is still open.
Once more into the smoke I go .......
It just could be that I was not waiting long enough for the lifter to recover. I will check later today with the right side that is still open.
Once more into the smoke I go .......
Drifting
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Re: Setting hydralic lifters - another tech tip. (BSeery)
Quote:
"Many performance cam/lifter packages come with anti pump-up lifters!!! Know what kind of lifters you have before you adjust them!!!!"
True!
Also the newer style anti pumpup lifters has a much stronger retaining ring. If at all possible get them adjusted right first time when assembling.Very easy to do when using the firing order method. I like them to rattle for a couple seconds when cold starting. Hydraulic lifters are a little viscosity sensitive as well,especially the Rhoads type. In my opinion,Cranes offering is superior to the Rhoads lifter for the bleeding at low rpm
[Modified by mountainmotor, 2:34 PM 7/16/2002]
"Many performance cam/lifter packages come with anti pump-up lifters!!! Know what kind of lifters you have before you adjust them!!!!"
True!
Also the newer style anti pumpup lifters has a much stronger retaining ring. If at all possible get them adjusted right first time when assembling.Very easy to do when using the firing order method. I like them to rattle for a couple seconds when cold starting. Hydraulic lifters are a little viscosity sensitive as well,especially the Rhoads type. In my opinion,Cranes offering is superior to the Rhoads lifter for the bleeding at low rpm
[Modified by mountainmotor, 2:34 PM 7/16/2002]
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From: Living in the Hartland
Re: Setting hydralic lifters - another tech tip. (mountainmotor)
mountainmotor
I am a little confussed on the anti pump up vs variable lifter thing. I am getting that the anti pump won't fill up with extra oil while the variable some how allow some oil to drain at idle shortening the lift and duration. Does Rhoads have the anti pump up or just variable? Any insite you can offer will help.
BTW I have the Crane fast bleed type that are the variable lifter kind.
I am a little confussed on the anti pump up vs variable lifter thing. I am getting that the anti pump won't fill up with extra oil while the variable some how allow some oil to drain at idle shortening the lift and duration. Does Rhoads have the anti pump up or just variable? Any insite you can offer will help.
BTW I have the Crane fast bleed type that are the variable lifter kind.
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From: Ajax Ontario
Re: Setting hydralic lifters - another tech tip. (mountainmotor)
Quote:
"Many performance cam/lifter packages come with anti pump-up lifters!!! Know what kind of lifters you have before you adjust them!!!!"
True!
Also the newer style anti pumpup lifters has a much stronger retaining ring. If at all possible get them adjusted right first time when assembling.Very easy to do when using the firing order method. I like them to rattle for a couple seconds when cold starting. Hydraulic lifters are a little viscosity sensitive as well,especially the Rhoads type. In my opinion,Cranes offering is superior to the Rhoads lifter for the bleeding at low rpm
[Modified by mountainmotor, 2:34 PM 7/16/2002]
"Many performance cam/lifter packages come with anti pump-up lifters!!! Know what kind of lifters you have before you adjust them!!!!"
True!
Also the newer style anti pumpup lifters has a much stronger retaining ring. If at all possible get them adjusted right first time when assembling.Very easy to do when using the firing order method. I like them to rattle for a couple seconds when cold starting. Hydraulic lifters are a little viscosity sensitive as well,especially the Rhoads type. In my opinion,Cranes offering is superior to the Rhoads lifter for the bleeding at low rpm
[Modified by mountainmotor, 2:34 PM 7/16/2002]
Drifting
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Re: Setting hydralic lifters - another tech tip. (Fevre)
The Rhoades are just the variable.
The Comps and anything that come from Crane are the anti pump up these days. I believe they are all made by Eaton .Speedpro as well made by Eaton,a very good Company that produces quality parts.
All that info should be correct unless something happened since last week
:)
[Modified by mountainmotor, 5:46 PM 7/16/2002]
The Comps and anything that come from Crane are the anti pump up these days. I believe they are all made by Eaton .Speedpro as well made by Eaton,a very good Company that produces quality parts.
All that info should be correct unless something happened since last week
:)
[Modified by mountainmotor, 5:46 PM 7/16/2002]
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From: Living in the Hartland
Re: Setting hydralic lifters - another tech tip. (mountainmotor)
FYI on Crane's diff lifters.
http://cranecams.com/master/lifter.htm
I got the High Intensity ones but there was no mention of low speed detonation in the summit catalog when i ordered them. I had no problems with detonation the short time the engine was running with these lifters in it, alum heads and comp cams XE284 cam at about 10/1 comp. With that cam I needed headers bad.
http://cranecams.com/master/lifter.htm
I got the High Intensity ones but there was no mention of low speed detonation in the summit catalog when i ordered them. I had no problems with detonation the short time the engine was running with these lifters in it, alum heads and comp cams XE284 cam at about 10/1 comp. With that cam I needed headers bad.
